Lab results before/after 6 weeks of Enclomiphene (give input if you have it)

[DogMogul]

Hey Guys,

Since everyone was asking about it and NEEDED to see my results of enclomiphene, here they are:
I started at 299 and have raised my testosterone to 838. So, was enclomiphene successful in raising my testosterone? Yes. However, I'm concerned that prior to this change, I had already corrected various liver indicators. In the last six weeks, my AST and ALT liver indicators have both risen from healthy to unhealthy levels. Keep in mind, I have been aggressively training, and my sleep has been disrupted due to moving. Overall, my sleep and rest have been suspect for the last two weeks.
I have experienced some estrogenic side effects on enclomiphene, including moodiness and mood swings. I plan to switch to traditional testosterone in hopes of lowering my estrogen levels. I also hope that injectable testosterone will not negatively affect my liver readings. This has been my science experiment for the past six weeks, and I have felt significant benefits from testosterone during this time.
Only recently, due to moving and high cortisol levels, have I experienced negative estrogenic symptoms.

I'm open to any feedback or advice.

Thank you so much, everyone.

 

[Warrior45]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Wilson6]

"I have been aggressively training, and my sleep has been disrupted due to moving. Overall, my sleep and rest have been suspect for the last two weeks." = moodiness and mood swings, probably has nothing to do with E2, 50.9 is not very high.

AST and ALT of 55 and 70 is not that high, likely from training. Always get a CK along with the labs, if elevated then the AST/ALT is coming from muscle.

Do you feel better on ENCL? Switching to T will probably give you the same E2 levels and your nuts will shrink if that matters.

If you want to get to the core of the moodiness and AST/ALT, don't change anything (keep the ENCL in) and take 7 - 10 days off training, and get some consistent sleep. Then recheck your labs along with CK and GGT, otherwise you're just guessing as to what is causing what at this point.

My non-medical two cents.

 

[Glycomann]

I think you will run into problems trying to micromanage your treatment. At first glance your numbers look fine even though slightly out of range.

 

[Bigtex]

Hey Guys,

Since everyone was asking about it and NEEDED to see my results of enclomiphene, here they are:
I started at 299 and have raised my testosterone to 838. So, was enclomiphene successful in raising my testosterone? Yes. However, I'm concerned that prior to this change, I had already corrected various liver indicators. In the last six weeks, my AST and ALT liver indicators have both risen from healthy to unhealthy levels. Keep in mind, I have been aggressively training, and my sleep has been disrupted due to moving. Overall, my sleep and rest have been suspect for the last two weeks.
I have experienced some estrogenic side effects on enclomiphene, including moodiness and mood swings. I plan to switch to traditional testosterone in hopes of lowering my estrogen levels. I also hope that injectable testosterone will not negatively affect my liver readings. This has been my science experiment for the past six weeks, and I have felt significant benefits from testosterone during this time.
Only recently, due to moving and high cortisol levels, have I experienced negative estrogenic symptoms.

I'm open to any feedback or advice.

Thank you so much, everyone.








View attachment 16323View attachment 16324aView attachment 16324

You are getting good advice already so I will add my 2 cents. Estradiol at 50.9 pg/mL is really only a high-normal or slightly elevated, depending on the lab’s reference range. IMHO, this is not a problem, UNLESS you are experiencing negative side effects like mood swings which your wife says you have. AST (55 U/L) and ALT (70 U/L) are mildly elevated. These enzymes can rise due to muscle damage so I would not even worry about this one. Intense exercise, especially resistance training, can elevate AST and ALT due to muscle breakdown. Slightly High Cortisol (20.7), could be caused by overtraining and/or poor sleep which can mimic or worsen estrogenic symptoms and contribute to mood instability. So the moodiness may be multifactorial (high cortisol, poor sleep, intense training) rather than solely due to estradiol (50.9 pg/mL). Switching to TRT may not resolve this, as estradiol levels could remain similar or increase without proper management. A low-dose aromatase inhibitor (e.g., anastrozole) could be considered as a last resort , if symptoms persist, but lifestyle optimization (sleep, stress reduction) should be prioritized first. My doctor prescribed me Anastrozole (1mg/wk) and my E2 was 65. It started crashing my E2 levels so I stopped it. I would suggest if you do need this stuff to start off very low dose, maybe 1/4mg every other week. But again lifestyle optimization should be prioritized first. Over training/lack of calories can be a huge factor in increasing Cortisol levels.

Things to try:
Deload or Rest - Take a few days off or reduce intensity/volume for a week or so. I never take time off and instead, just reduce the volume/intensity for a week occasionally. Nutrition - Make sure you Eat Enough Calories. Being in a big deficit increases cortisol—especially with intense training. Carbs Post-Workout - Helps lower cortisol and restock glycogen. Stay Hydrated - Even mild dehydration = stress = higher cortisol. Make sure you are consuming at least 1 gallon of water per day. You might also consider adding Ashwagandha to you supplement which can assist in lowering cortisol and helps with anxiety, sleep, and recovery (300–600 mg/day close to bed time).

A Prospective, Randomized Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Safety and Efficacy of a High-Concentration Full-Spectrum Extract of Ashwagandha Root in Reducing Stress and Anxiety in Adults - PMC

Stress is a state of mental or emotional strain or tension, which can lead to underperformance and adverse clinical conditions. Adaptogens are herbs that help in combating stress. Ayurvedic classical texts, animal studies and clinical studies ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[DogMogul]

You are getting good advice already so I will add my 2 cents. Estradiol at 50.9 pg/mL is really only a high-normal or slightly elevated, depending on the lab’s reference range. IMHO, this is not a problem, UNLESS you are experiencing negative side effects like mood swings which your wife says you have. AST (55 U/L) and ALT (70 U/L) are mildly elevated. These enzymes can rise due to muscle damage so I would not even worry about this one. Intense exercise, especially resistance training, can elevate AST and ALT due to muscle breakdown. Slightly High Cortisol (20.7), could be caused by overtraining and/or poor sleep which can mimic or worsen estrogenic symptoms and contribute to mood instability. So the moodiness may be multifactorial (high cortisol, poor sleep, intense training) rather than solely due to estradiol (50.9 pg/mL). Switching to TRT may not resolve this, as estradiol levels could remain similar or increase without proper management. A low-dose aromatase inhibitor (e.g., anastrozole) could be considered as a last resort , if symptoms persist, but lifestyle optimization (sleep, stress reduction) should be prioritized first. My doctor prescribed me Anastrozole (1mg/wk) and my E2 was 65. It started crashing my E2 levels so I stopped it. I would suggest if you do need this stuff to start off very low dose, maybe 1/4mg every other week. But again lifestyle optimization should be prioritized first. Over training/lack of calories can be a huge factor in increasing Cortisol levels.

Things to try:
Deload or Rest - Take a few days off or reduce intensity/volume for a week or so. I never take time off and instead, just reduce the volume/intensity for a week occasionally. Nutrition - Make sure you Eat Enough Calories. Being in a big deficit increases cortisol—especially with intense training. Carbs Post-Workout - Helps lower cortisol and restock glycogen. Stay Hydrated - Even mild dehydration = stress = higher cortisol. Make sure you are consuming at least 1 gallon of water per day. You might also consider adding Ashwagandha to you supplement which can assist in lowering cortisol and helps with anxiety, sleep, and recovery (300–600 mg/day close to bed time).

A Prospective, Randomized Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Safety and Efficacy of a High-Concentration Full-Spectrum Extract of Ashwagandha Root in Reducing Stress and Anxiety in Adults - PMC

Stress is a state of mental or emotional strain or tension, which can lead to underperformance and adverse clinical conditions. Adaptogens are herbs that help in combating stress. Ayurvedic classical texts, animal studies and clinical studies ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

SAGE ADVICE FROM ALL OF YOU.
-I will lower my intensity by 25% this week strategically (since I am in cut).
I will focus on more cortisol lowering activities now that we weren’t moving anymore.
-Last week was crazy. Moved all week. Had to do late workouts 10pm or later workout times. Horrible sleep.
-This week I will focus on the recovery side of things and sleep.

Context/side note:
I want good levels - I am prepping for my first cycle to start this June(test e/ 300-500 16 weekish). I want to make sure I am in good health before I jump on. I have lost 47 lbs this year and when I was overweight I was not healthy enough to use steroids. I am getting an akg this week as well. Just trying to do this right before I start my enhanced, jacked and tan future.


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[myosin]

Encl really shouldn’t affect E all that much…. That said, everyones “unique E levels” are just that, 50 for one doesnt affect but does for another… hows your BF level? Bodyfat % isnt appreciated enough how much it contributes to elevated E…. Are you taking daily or three times a week? There are a couple protocols used. What dose? Dosing everyday would be “best” in maybe helping the E (and losing some BF% if high).

 

[DogMogul]

Encl really shouldn’t affect E all that much…. That said, everyones “unique E levels” are just that, 50 for one doesnt affect but does for another… hows your BF level? Bodyfat % isnt appreciated enough how much it contributes to elevated E…. Are you taking daily or three times a week? There are a couple protocols used. What dose? Dosing everyday would be “best” in maybe helping the E (and losing some BF% if high).

Enclomiphene is a Serm. So it literally blocks estrogen receptors, the blocking makes your body think it’s deficient where your body then increases estrogen production which in effect raises the testosterone. So it does literally inspire estrogen production, but it also blocks it as well.
We will see more data the more people use this as a test alternative.

I take 25mg every evening.
Body fat is at 25.3%


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[genetic freak]

This is why I always pull Cystatin C and GGT. I can still train balls to the wall all the way up to the test and not have to worry about false indicators of kidney or liver health. My creatinine may be 1.75, but my Cystatin C is above 100 and my AST/ALT may be double the reference range, but my GGT is 10-15.

Like the others said, your numbers are nothing to worry about. When you run your blast, come back and talk to us. Haha. Most guys are scared to pull labs during or after their blast. I put it in my clients contracts they must pull labs within 14 days of me requesting them for that exact reason.

 

[Bigtex]

Enclomiphene is a Serm. So it literally blocks estrogen receptors, the blocking makes your body think it’s deficient where your body then increases estrogen production which in effect raises the testosterone. So it does literally inspire estrogen production, but it also blocks it as well.
We will see more data the more people use this as a test alternative.

I take 25mg every evening.
Body fat is at 25.3%


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, Enclomiphene works by blocking estrogen receptors, thus stimulating testosterone production by increasing luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH). However, this process can sometimes lead to elevated E2 levels. Enclomiphene of course boosts testosterone production, and some of this testosterone can be converted to estradiol (E2) via the enzyme aromatase, especially if you have higher body fat or genetic predisposition to higher aromatase activity. Body fat averages for men age 20-39 is 26.10%. So you fall in the average category. Individual differences - some men metabolize enclomiphene differently or have varying sensitivity to its effects, leading to an imbalance where testosterone rises significantly, but so does E2 due to aromatization. Especially if E2 was already elevated before starting enclomiphene. As I mentioned chronic stress or poor sleep can disrupt hormonal regulation, indirectly raising E2. If you have symptoms which might include water retention, gynecomastia, low libido, fatigue, or mood changes you may need to decrease the enclomiphene dose or address some of the lifestyle factors that are causing stress or both. Since it is is just over the top, I would work on lifestyle factors and wait and see what happens.

 

[DogMogul]

Yes, Enclomiphene works by blocking estrogen receptors, thus stimulating testosterone production by increasing luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH). However, this process can sometimes lead to elevated E2 levels. Enclomiphene of course boosts testosterone production, and some of this testosterone can be converted to estradiol (E2) via the enzyme aromatase, especially if you have higher body fat or genetic predisposition to higher aromatase activity. Body fat averages for men age 20-39 is 26.10%. So you fall in the average category. Individual differences - some men metabolize enclomiphene differently or have varying sensitivity to its effects, leading to an imbalance where testosterone rises significantly, but so does E2 due to aromatization. Especially if E2 was already elevated before starting enclomiphene. As I mentioned chronic stress or poor sleep can disrupt hormonal regulation, indirectly raising E2. If you have symptoms which might include water retention, gynecomastia, low libido, fatigue, or mood changes you may need to decrease the enclomiphene dose or address some of the lifestyle factors that are causing stress or both. Since it is is just over the top, I would work on lifestyle factors and wait and see what happens.

Great response.

I always appreciate the context and the detail you put into your responses.


This week is fully focused on getting back to my regular schedule. Sleep and cortisol lowering activities.


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[Wilson6]

Great response.

I always appreciate the context and the detail you put into your responses.


This week is fully focused on getting back to my regular schedule. Sleep and cortisol lowering activities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Give this a read. Also remember the SERMs will hammer the GH/IGF-I system, suppl with a GHRH or GH might be helpful if you're running ENCL, I would avoid clomiphene. Also see https://aacrjournals.org/cancerres/...act-1326-Oral-enclomiphene-citrate-lowers-IGF.