Forum Statistics

Threads
27,576
Posts
541,665
Members
28,557
Latest Member
Ethan7400

Knee Wraps when squatting

SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,673
2,293
not to go off subject but I was wondering what the real truth about weight belts is? I keep hearing that they don't do shit but put money in the pockets of the people that sell them?

As for wraps, I don't use knee ones but have started using wrist ones and find that they only help a little

Intra-abdominal pressure is the goal of belts. Also, wrist wraps are for providing cast-like support for your wrists so that they are not hyper-extended during pressing, whereas knee wraps are for support as well as spring.
 

Jenner

Friends Remembered
Jan 9, 2012
2,457
553
They absolutely serve a purpose by intensifying your core strength.

hmm, was thinking for just lower back support...seeing I have a small issue...worth it? I don't want to look like an idiot at the gym...maybe I should be looking at other types of support belts and not weight training belts

Intra-abdominal pressure is the goal of belts. Also, wrist wraps are for providing cast-like support for your wrists so that they are not hyper-extended during pressing, whereas knee wraps are for support as well as spring.

yea, I get that from the wrist wraps but I find they tighten up more during the lifts and I have to adjust them as they are killing me...lol They work good enough though...the spring thing on the knee wraps is interesting
 
PillarofBalance

PillarofBalance

Strength Pimp
Feb 27, 2011
17,066
4,640
Jen check out the rheband belt
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,996
1,672
Knee wraps do by all means increase performance. But they may actually be of detriment to knee stability. I know they make you 'feel' good, but this may not really be stability.

Here is a study on it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22995993

Wearing knee wraps affects mechanical output and performance characteristics of back squat exercise.


Abstract
The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of wearing knee wraps on mechanical output and performance characteristics of back squat exercise.

Ten resistance trained men (back squat 1 repetition maximum [1RM]: 160.5 ± 18.4 kg) performed 6 single back squats with 80% 1RM, 3 wearing knee wraps, 3 without. Mechanical output was obtained from ground reaction force, performance characteristics from digitized motion footage obtained from a single high-speed digital camera.

Wearing knee wraps led to a 39% reduction (0.09 compared with 0.11 m, p = 0.037) in horizontal barbell displacement that continued during the lifting phase. Lowering phase vertical impulse remained within 1% across conditions; however, the lowering phase was performed 45% faster (1.13 compared with 1.57 seconds).
This demonstrated that vertical force applied to the center of mass during the lowering phase was considerably larger and was likely a consequence of the generation and storage of elastic energy within the knee wrap.

Subsequent vertical impulse applied to the center of mass was 10% greater (192 compared with 169 N·s, p = 0.018). Mechanical work involved in vertically displacing the center of mass was performed 20% faster and was reflected by a 10% increase in peak power (2,121 compared with 1,841 W, p = 0.019).

The elastic properties of knee wraps increased mechanical output but altered back squat technique in a way that is likely to alter the musculature targeted by the exercise and possibly compromise the integrity of the knee joint. Knee wraps should not be worn during the strength and condition process, and perceived weakness in the knee joint should be assessed and treated.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,673
2,293
Knee wraps do by all means increase performance. But they may actually be of detriment to knee stability. I know they make you 'feel' good, but this may not really be stability.

Here is a study on it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22995993


I lost any faith in that study as soon as I read that the average 1rm of the participants was 160.5kg, with not a single one over 178.9kg.

Does that mean that I don't think studies on weak people apply to strong people? Yes and no.

The study states later that the knee wraps "possibly compromise the integrity of the knee joint" because the participants (only 10, way too small of a sample) altered their squat form while wearing the wraps vs. without them. That tells me 2 very important things.

#1 - Experienced and accomplished lifters will NOT lift differently in wraps than they do without them. Once your form has been locked in through thousands of reps, wraps will do nothing to alter your form.

#2 - They did NOT conclude that knee wraps compromise knee stability. They observed a difference and form and opined that that change COULD POSSIBLY compromise the integrity of the knee joint.



Even without all of that said, and even if somebody posts up a study that is ironclad in it's proof of the dangers of knee wraps, I will continue to train in them when I get to my heavier sets because my knees do not hurt as badly during the lift or in the days afterwards.
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,996
1,672
I lost any faith in that study as soon as I read that the average 1rm of the participants was 160.5kg, with not a single one over 178.9kg.

Does that mean that I don't think studies on weak people apply to strong people? Yes and no.

The study states later that the knee wraps "possibly compromise the integrity of the knee joint" because the participants (only 10, way too small of a sample) altered their squat form while wearing the wraps vs. without them. That tells me 2 very important things.

#1 - Experienced and accomplished lifters will NOT lift differently in wraps than they do without them. Once your form has been locked in through thousands of reps, wraps will do nothing to alter your form.

#2 - They did NOT conclude that knee wraps compromise knee stability. They observed a difference and form and opined that that change COULD POSSIBLY compromise the integrity of the knee joint.



Even without all of that said, and even if somebody posts up a study that is ironclad in it's proof of the dangers of knee wraps, I will continue to train in them when I get to my heavier sets because my knees do not hurt as badly during the lift or in the days afterwards.


Good observations and valid points.

I found some of the data interesting never the less. Especially the figure of increasing impulse about 10% which seems close to inline with what you hear in regards to increasing one's ability to squat heavier.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,673
2,293
Good observations and valid points.

I found some of the data interesting never the less. Especially the figure of increasing impulse about 10% which seems close to inline with what you hear in regards to increasing one's ability to squat heavier.

Agreed, there is some interesting stuff in the study. Not to nitpick it even more, but 10% only works at 300-350lbs range. At 600+ squat, they don't give me 60+ pounds. The amount of help is pretty static, and in fact could be less the heavier the weight gets because of the simple fact that elastic wraps can only rebound so much.
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,996
1,672
Agreed, there is some interesting stuff in the study. Not to nitpick it even more, but 10% only works at 300-350lbs range. At 600+ squat, they don't give me 60+ pounds. The amount of help is pretty static, and in fact could be less the heavier the weight gets because of the simple fact that elastic wraps can only rebound so much.

Another good point ;) Crossfit must be rubbing off on you :D. Next thing you will be doing kipping pullups all day long ;)
 
J-dub

J-dub

MuscleHead
Feb 16, 2013
1,171
178
I've never gotten more than 20-25 pounds out of any wraps, no matter how tight or what pattern they were wrapped in, so I wouldn't say that it's anywhere near the same ballpark as actual gear (not saying anybody said that, just saying). That being said, from a safety standpoint, I always wrap over 85% just like BI said.

Absolutely right, know where near actual gear it was his comment about bench shirts that made me say that, lol. Thats how I was when I first tried wraps... it turned me to the dark side, it wasn't long before I was in briefs and then suits and then suits with briefs.

I think there has been a lot of good points brought up in this thread, you still need to work on raw strength but wrapping on heavier sets has saved my knees.
 
porky little keg

porky little keg

MuscleHead
May 21, 2011
1,225
647
Knee wraps do a few things for you. No only do they give you some pop out of the hole, but they also help you feel your knees throughout the lift which can help for tracking and technique issues.

Say you max out at 350 but want to only use wraps when you need them and not as a crutch -
1st spend more time warming up, get your joints mobile first, then take a warm up set or two with the bar, a quarter, and a plate. THen start wrapping, but wrap really loose, tightening up the wrap over 300 and cranking it on for top end sets.

You'd be surprised how much a really loose wrap gives you - even if it is just a mental thing.

If it's just knee pain put some equi-block under a set of knee sleeves and give it 20 minutes before you squat.


As for Jen's question on the belts.... they provide an artificial set of abs to brace against. Nothing wrong with using a belt for heavier sets if you need it, but there's no need to. There are all kinds of women like Therese JAnc who are absolutely amazing lifters and never use a belt. If it's just for back pain the rehband is fine.
 
porky little keg

porky little keg

MuscleHead
May 21, 2011
1,225
647
For anyone who hasn't seen Therese lift yet.....

here's her at Relentless pulling 468 at 165# beltless http://youtu.be/5nMxwPh0M20

and here's her most recent video ( post appendix surgery) with a few other lifters hitting a 405 pull in training and doing pushups with a 250# guy standing on her back.... http://youtu.be/pmxs8hb47Nw
 
Who is viewing this thread?

There are currently 0 members watching this topic

Top