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Kidney function Questions

R

Raz

TID Lady Member
Jul 30, 2017
47
17
During the 3 months did you still stick to your diet plan and training? I am planning on doing this and then taking a few days off training when i retest.i hope it helps
 
MR. BMJ

MR. BMJ

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 21, 2011
753
522
How much protein are you consuming daily? Are you well hydrated and keeping an eye on BP? It may or may not have to do with gear, more likely dietary intake and training. Best time/way to check labs is take your protein intake down for a few days, no lifting for a week or eccentric exercise, be well hydrated. Then retest. Those values are not that high, but keep an eye on the trend. Exercise/muscle damage can raise ALT and AST, high protein intake BUN, creatinine. Watch the clen and BP. Much has been said recently about enlarged hearts and AAS, yes they contribute in higher doses, IMO keep BP < 120/80, I believe use of stimulants and not controlling BP enhances the negative affects on renal and cardiac function. Just my non-medical opinion. What was the dosing of MAST and VAR, how long on clen and have you been watching BP?
This above....W6 is on point as always.

Retest, but don't train for a week prior to testing, and stay well hydrated going into the testing. This will be a more accurate measure of your values. Exercise/training and dehydration will effect your values quite a bit, for most people at least.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
615
934
Plenty of great advice already give but I will throw this into the mix since I just had to go over this with my cardiologist who got excited over my blood tests.

#1. Does resistance training and muscle mass have an effect
Creatinine is a substance that comes from the catabolism of creatine phosphate. Creatine is combined with phosphate to produce phosphocreatine, stored in skeletal muscle which is a precursor to adenosine triphosphate (ATP) which is used to produce energy for short duration high intensity muscle contractions. Thus, athletes involved in resistance training are more likely to have a blood creatinine level that is higher than usual. So not only does exercise play a part but muscle mass does as well. " Serum and urinary creatinine correlated significantly with body weight, but the level of correlation with lean mass was even greater. "
Baxmann AC, Ahmed MS, Marques NC, Menon VB, Pereira AB, Kirsztajn GM, Heilberg IP. Influence of muscle mass and physical activity on serum and urinary creatinine and serum cystatin C. Clin J Am Soc Nephrol. 2008 Mar;3(2):348-54. doi: 10.2215/CJN.02870707. Epub 2008 Jan 30. PMID: 18235143; PMCID: PMC2390952.

#2. Are you taking creatine supplement.
The unused creatine that’s not used as energy in the muscle gets converted into creatinine, a waste product. This will give you a false high on the test.
Williamson L, New D. How the use of creatine supplements can elevate serum creatinine in the absence of underlying kidney pathology. BMJ Case Rep. 2014 Sep 19;2014:bcr2014204754. doi: 10.1136/bcr-2014-204754. PMID: 25239988; PMCID: PMC4170516.

#3. Hight protein diets.
An increase in serum creatinine can result from increased ingestion of cooked meat (which contains creatinine converted from creatine by the heat from cooking) or increased intake of protein. Again, this high reading is not indictive of underlying kidney issues.
Samra, M., & Abcar, A. C. (2012). False estimates of elevated creatinine. The Permanente journal, 16(2),51–52. https://doi.org/10.7812/tpp/11-121

eGFR
The eGFR test measures the level of creatinine in the blood and uses the result in a formula to calculate a number that reflects how well the kidneys are functioning, So if the levels of creatine in the blood are high from one of the above, you estimate GFR will also be high but that again does not mean your kidney function is decreased. Note the conclusion from the Baxman et al (2008) study:
Conclusions: Cystatin C may represent a more adequate alternative to assess renal function in individuals with higher muscle mass when mild kidney impairment is suspected.

Here is my last blood work
BUN - 17 (8-23)
Creatinine - 1/32 (0.70 - 1.20)
eGRF - 57 (mild to moderate decreased)
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
1,614
409
IMO keep BP < 120/80, I believe use of stimulants and not controlling BP enhances the negative affects on renal and cardiac function. Just my non-medical opinion.
W6, I've been using ECA stack for my workouts...Twice a week for now...No other time...When I check bpm while on, my points only rise by 5...After workout bpm goes back to normal...Do u think this is to much...I don't check bp, it titrates back and forth due to pain...
.
 
rawdeal

rawdeal

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 29, 2013
2,887
1,714
Plenty of great advice already give but I will throw this into the mix since I just had to . . .
You and your comprehensive posts are really getting aggravating. If I wanted that shit I could go to an up-to-date medical pro. Failing that, I guess I can just come here ....... :)

Was your Cardiologist happily excited, or, not so much?
 
R

Raz

TID Lady Member
Jul 30, 2017
47
17
Plenty of great advice already give but I will throw this into the mix since I just had to go over this with my cardiologist who got excited over my blood tests.

#1. Does resistance training and muscle mass have an effect
Creatinine is a substance that comes from the catabolism of creatine phosphate. Creatine is combined with phosphate to produce phosphocreatine, stored in skeletal muscle which is a precursor to adenosine triphosphate (ATP) which is used to produce energy for short duration high intensity muscle contractions. Thus, athletes involved in resistance training are more likely to have a blood creatinine level that is higher than usual. So not only does exercise play a part but muscle mass does as well. " Serum and urinary creatinine correlated significantly with body weight, but the level of correlation with lean mass was even greater. "
Baxmann AC, Ahmed MS, Marques NC, Menon VB, Pereira AB, Kirsztajn GM, Heilberg IP. Influence of muscle mass and physical activity on serum and urinary creatinine and serum cystatin C. Clin J Am Soc Nephrol. 2008 Mar;3(2):348-54. doi: 10.2215/CJN.02870707. Epub 2008 Jan 30. PMID: 18235143; PMCID: PMC2390952.

#2. Are you taking creatine supplement.
The unused creatine that’s not used as energy in the muscle gets converted into creatinine, a waste product. This will give you a false high on the test.
Williamson L, New D. How the use of creatine supplements can elevate serum creatinine in the absence of underlying kidney pathology. BMJ Case Rep. 2014 Sep 19;2014:bcr2014204754. doi: 10.1136/bcr-2014-204754. PMID: 25239988; PMCID: PMC4170516.

#3. Hight protein diets.
An increase in serum creatinine can result from increased ingestion of cooked meat (which contains creatinine converted from creatine by the heat from cooking) or increased intake of protein. Again, this high reading is not indictive of underlying kidney issues.
Samra, M., & Abcar, A. C. (2012). False estimates of elevated creatinine. The Permanente journal, 16(2),51–52. https://doi.org/10.7812/tpp/11-121

eGFR
The eGFR test measures the level of creatinine in the blood and uses the result in a formula to calculate a number that reflects how well the kidneys are functioning, So if the levels of creatine in the blood are high from one of the above, you estimate GFR will also be high but that again does not mean your kidney function is decreased. Note the conclusion from the Baxman et al (2008) study:
Conclusions: Cystatin C may represent a more adequate alternative to assess renal function in individuals with higher muscle mass when mild kidney impairment is suspected.

Here is my last blood work
BUN - 17 (8-23)
Creatinine - 1/32 (0.70 - 1.20)
eGRF - 57 (mild to moderate decreased)
Thank you so much for this explanation it makes so much sense my trainer has said much along the same lines as well as my doc i will monitor going forward and re test ...might even try to get the cystane c test in at some point.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
615
934
You and your comprehensive posts are really getting aggravating. If I wanted that shit I could go to an up-to-date medical pro. Failing that, I guess I can just come here ....... :)

Was your Cardiologist happily excited, or, not so much?

Actually rawdeal, he argued with me until I showed him this same research. He had referred me to a specialist and I flat out refused to go. Fortunately, I have the last say since I am pay8ing the bill.
 
rawdeal

rawdeal

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 29, 2013
2,887
1,714
You lost me there, bro.
I should mind my own damn business, but .......

If training-related muscle tissue damage dumps byproducts into the bloodstream that go on to affect lab test numbers soon after, then the longer after training your blood is drawn, the more the lab results reflect true kidney damage vs. to-be-expected normal temporary gymrat lifestyle side effects?

Maybe that's what @MR. BMJ is referring to?
 
MR. BMJ

MR. BMJ

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 21, 2011
753
522
You lost me there, bro.
Yea, RawDeal and BigTex explained it above in regards to muscle mass/size and tissue breakdown increasing creatinine levels, thus giving a higher reading when tested. It's part of the game when getting bigger, so if you train prior to getting tested, it will give a heightened reading (creatinine levels). Hence, the not training for a few days to a week prior to testing:)
 
DungeonDweller

DungeonDweller

VIP Member
Mar 21, 2017
1,122
821
Lol I was trying to make a joke about taking time off from the gym. If my numbers are caused by my physical exercise then I consider the results of the test a test of my physical exercise, not of my kidneys. I could be wrong but it lets me sleep better at night.
 
rawdeal

rawdeal

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 29, 2013
2,887
1,714
Lol I was trying to make a joke about taking time off from the gym. If my numbers are caused by my physical exercise then I consider the results of the test a test of my physical exercise, not of my kidneys. I could be wrong but it lets me sleep better at night.
Understood and agreed, DD, and, yeah, a lot of my random neural firings are more about my own peace of mind than they are about widely regarded fact. I had a puny 2 yr stint as a Mod once on a small board that shapes some of my mindless drivel ... that any post by anyone may be read by some who don't even appear in the thread, now, or much later, when a new member arrives. I quoted you just to hook me into my next bit of Preachifying lol.
 
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