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Ketosis?

ITAWOLF

ITAWOLF

VIP Member
Dec 9, 2010
1,164
540
#37
depends on your goal
ive done it a lot but prob only as long as 3 mths
just keep carbs low

most still over eat on keto

I keep my % below 8-10% year round
I keto hard in april for about a mth
plus I also dnp a lot

gear I believe is best bang for buck while on keto -- if ur cutting
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
194
197
#38
Thanx, bro...I will give it a read...It just seems like if u can make your body burn fat and burn the fat u eat, it would be more logical to do that....U wouldn't be gaining fat anymore...However, if u can't build muscle without carbs, it's a catch 22 deal...
If it works for you then it is good. Not all people have problems processing carbs, but lots of people do. The biggest thing I am seeing is saturated fats for those individuals helps control LDL small particles (bad) and increases LDL large particles (good) and HDL. The big problem with most diets is it has to be a lifestyle change. Can you eat a diet that is so limiting? I tried it as I mentioned for 3 months and absolutely hated it. The high fat got old and the lack of glycogen in my body effected my workouts tremendously. I also was not able to take in the minerals I needed and started having cramps. The muscles and energy system we use in this sport are highly glycogen dependent. The energy system we use to make ATP is the glycotic system. Ketones can produce ATP but it take a whole lot longer. We also need the water stores as a result of carb intakes to shuttle amino acids in to the muscle cell which kick starts hypertrophy. This is why many have switched from high fat diets to low carb diets taking in carbs before and after training. This helps keep the excess carbs that are not being stored in the muscle as glycogen from being converted into fat.

There is a whole lot of information on that site and the videos are very informative. If you give it a try make sure you keep track of your metabolics factors before and during and see if it makes any difference in cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure etc. Might have a LDL particle sub-fraction profile done to see if the LDL particles change as a result of the increase in saturated fat intake. There are lots of people who have tried this diet and stayed on it and have improved their health. I like ice cream and donuts way too much but have no problem processing the carbs. I also have no problem with my blood work.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
355
78
#39
If it works for you then it is good. Not all people have problems processing carbs, but lots of people do. The biggest thing I am seeing is saturated fats for those individuals helps control LDL small particles (bad) and increases LDL large particles (good) and HDL. The big problem with most diets is it has to be a lifestyle change. Can you eat a diet that is so limiting? I tried it as I mentioned for 3 months and absolutely hated it. The high fat got old and the lack of glycogen in my body effected my workouts tremendously. I also was not able to take in the minerals I needed and started having cramps. The muscles and energy system we use in this sport are highly glycogen dependent. The energy system we use to make ATP is the glycotic system. Ketones can produce ATP but it take a whole lot longer. We also need the water stores as a result of carb intakes to shuttle amino acids in to the muscle cell which kick starts hypertrophy. This is why many have switched from high fat diets to low carb diets taking in carbs before and after training. This helps keep the excess carbs that are not being stored in the muscle as glycogen from being converted into fat.

There is a whole lot of information on that site and the videos are very informative. If you give it a try make sure you keep track of your metabolics factors before and during and see if it makes any difference in cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure etc. Might have a LDL particle sub-fraction profile done to see if the LDL particles change as a result of the increase in saturated fat intake. There are lots of people who have tried this diet and stayed on it and have improved their health. I like ice cream and donuts way too much but have no problem processing the carbs. I also have no problem with my blood work.

I re-read zillas writing on this and he is with you on it...He is saying u have to have carbs and protein to produce ooa...I think I'm going to just bulk for now, then when I get ready to cut, try keto...I don't feel like I have enough muscle...

It sounds like it would just be easier to deficit calories when ready to cut, the normal way...
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
194
197
#40
I re-read zillas writing on this and he is with you on it...He is saying u have to have carbs and protein to produce ooa...I think I'm going to just bulk for now, then when I get ready to cut, try keto...I don't feel like I have enough muscle...

It sounds like it would just be easier to deficit calories when ready to cut, the normal way...

I think most pros have gone away from ketosis (except maybe last three days pre-contest) when they cut and instead gone low carb/carb cycling taking in the majority of carbs before training and after. Also. I remember doing an interview with Jay Cutler after he won the nationals we talked a lot about diet and he said he pretty much keeps calories constant year round and creates a caloric deficit to cut by increasing cardio. Yes, you need carbs (glycogen) to build muscle. You also definitely need a higher protein diet to provide the amino acids to support hypertrophy.

lacticsystem.gif
 
The Phoenix

The Phoenix

Senior Member
Jul 29, 2014
118
41
#41
I've heard the buzz on Ketosis. Was always to unadventurous to know more since it sounds contagious such as toxic plasmosis and wretched cameltoesis....LULZ:eek:
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
355
78
#44
I think most pros have gone away from ketosis (except maybe last three days pre-contest) when they cut and instead gone low carb/carb cycling taking in the majority of carbs before training and after. Also. I remember doing an interview with Jay Cutler after he won the nationals we talked a lot about diet and he said he pretty much keeps calories constant year round and creates a caloric deficit to cut by increasing cardio. Yes, you need carbs (glycogen) to build muscle. You also definitely need a higher protein diet to provide the amino acids to support hypertrophy.

View attachment 10215

Cutler (cuts) is my second fav (Arnold being first)...I remember watching a vid on utube with him discussing eating...He was saying how he hated to eat because it was a constant diet, not to mention alot of it...He never looked forward to eating...I do see the logic in approaching diet that way...I have thought of the same method in regards to keeping calories same and doing cardio to negate calories for cutting...I just hate cardio so bad!...I think I am going to do it this way tho, or at least try...Lack of carbs is causing me some issues already...I couldn't get my eyes to focus today...Also, having lack of mental focus, etc...
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
194
197
#45
Cutler (cuts) is my second fav (Arnold being first)...I remember watching a vid on utube with him discussing eating...He was saying how he hated to eat because it was a constant diet, not to mention alot of it...He never looked forward to eating...I do see the logic in approaching diet that way...I have thought of the same method in regards to keeping calories same and doing cardio to negate calories for cutting...I just hate cardio so bad!...I think I am going to do it this way tho, or at least try...Lack of carbs is causing me some issues already...I couldn't get my eyes to focus today...Also, having lack of mental focus, etc...
Most of us are probably aware but the more energy we use through exercise and the more muscle mass we have, the more our needs for calories becomes. These pro BB'ers like quite a few other top level athletes consume a huge amount of calories just to take care of their needs on a daily basis. I use Phil Heath as an example in my college classes I teach. Heath is a huge man, very muscular and expends a lot of energy through exercise at that level. Here is a typical diet for him:

One day’s total consumption: 9394 calories, 910 g protein, 881 g carbs, 239 g

Protein = 910g = 3640 cal (39%)

Carbs = 881g = 3524 cal (38%)

Fat - 239g = 211 cal (23%)

The protein intake is about 3.25g/lb/bw. But he is also taking in a pretty good amount of carbs. Dietary fat is kept at a low/moderate level. Keep in mind that fats (ie. LDL) is used heavily for hypertrophy. Some of these Worlds Strongest Man competitors are eating 10K - 15K calories/day. Some pro football players and Olympic track athletes eat 9-10K/day. Again, as the level of competition goes up, so does the need for energy/nutrients.

Lots of these guys do HIIT in place or in combination with long duration aerobic exercise. So it is not quite as unpleasant. I have talked to many pros who as they get close to a contest do morning and evening cardio. Like most people do in sport, things like eating and workouts become you just do. All depends on the level you want to reach. You got to be willing to do what it takes.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
355
78
#46
Most of us are probably aware but the more energy we use through exercise and the more muscle mass we have, the more our needs for calories becomes. These pro BB'ers like quite a few other top level athletes consume a huge amount of calories just to take care of their needs on a daily basis. I use Phil Heath as an example in my college classes I teach. Heath is a huge man, very muscular and expends a lot of energy through exercise at that level. Here is a typical diet for him:

One day’s total consumption: 9394 calories, 910 g protein, 881 g carbs, 239 g

Protein = 910g = 3640 cal (39%)

Carbs = 881g = 3524 cal (38%)

Fat - 239g = 211 cal (23%)

The protein intake is about 3.25g/lb/bw. But he is also taking in a pretty good amount of carbs. Dietary fat is kept at a low/moderate level. Keep in mind that fats (ie. LDL) is used heavily for hypertrophy. Some of these Worlds Strongest Man competitors are eating 10K - 15K calories/day. Some pro football players and Olympic track athletes eat 9-10K/day. Again, as the level of competition goes up, so does the need for energy/nutrients.

Lots of these guys do HIIT in place or in combination with long duration aerobic exercise. So it is not quite as unpleasant. I have talked to many pros who as they get close to a contest do morning and evening cardio. Like most people do in sport, things like eating and workouts become you just do. All depends on the level you want to reach. You got to be willing to do what it takes.
Yes, I am aware....I was speaking with a friend (use to be connected with strength coaching at FSU) of mine about diet not to long ago, and he was stressing that Idea to me (another friend of ours made the point how I eat 4-to 5 times what he does, yet he is roughly 30lbs heavier with fat lbs than I)...I'm not even close to Heath, Cutler and the pro's in size or even at that level, and yet, still need more food than most of my peers...I don't know if I would even be able to come close to eating the requirements necessary for pro level bb'ing...I already have a time trying to consume what I need now...I pretty much feel hungry most of the time as it is....To be honest, it is quite aggravating at times....I do love to eat tho, just can't stay satisfied long enough...Also, I'm in chronic pain 95% of the time....Makes doing anything in life extremely challenging....
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
355
78
#47
Most of us are probably aware but the more energy we use through exercise and the more muscle mass we have, the more our needs for calories becomes. These pro BB'ers like quite a few other top level athletes consume a huge amount of calories just to take care of their needs on a daily basis. I use Phil Heath as an example in my college classes I teach. Heath is a huge man, very muscular and expends a lot of energy through exercise at that level. Here is a typical diet for him:

One day’s total consumption: 9394 calories, 910 g protein, 881 g carbs, 239 g

Protein = 910g = 3640 cal (39%)

Carbs = 881g = 3524 cal (38%)

Fat - 239g = 211 cal (23%)

That is a tremendous amount of calorie intake...I don't see how it is possible to consume that many in a 24hr period...If he were to eat every hour within the 24hr slot, he would have to consume around 400 calories each hour...If he ate every two hours, 800 calories...When does he have time to sleep, train, and work?....I'm not seeing where this is possible, Tex?...How are they able to do this, besides the fact they have to force feed...I'm not seeing enough time in the day to do it...
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
194
197
#48
That is a tremendous amount of calorie intake...I don't see how it is possible to consume that many in a 24hr period...If he were to eat every hour within the 24hr slot, he would have to consume around 400 calories each hour...If he ate every two hours, 800 calories...When does he have time to sleep, train, and work?....I'm not seeing where this is possible, Tex?...How are they able to do this, besides the fact they have to force feed...I'm not seeing enough time in the day to do it...

BackAthIt......I was a world class powerlifter and set many records in the 275's and 308's. I ate anywhere from 7000 to 10,000 calories every day depending on my training. Even now about 1/2 that but I eat 2100 calories just for breakfast. Phil Heath actually eats 7 meals a day, I only ate 6. Now, another difference, I actually had a full time job, most of these pros training is work. If I ate 400 calories even now, I would not even remember eating. I am 6'2" and around 265.

I have worked with so many people that want to grow and get big, They always tell me they eat a lot. Once I do a diet recall for 2 days I find they actually think they are eating a lot that what they believed they were eating. Yes. force feed is the word......it not so much what you do because you are hungry, its instead something you do to grow and get stronger. It might as well come from an IV.

Meal 1 - 6am
Meal 2 - 9am
Meal 3 - 12pm
Meal 4 - 3pm
Meal 5- 5pm
Meal 6 - 8pm

If you want something bad enough then you find the time to get the job done. I use to take food precooked to work and toss it in the micro wave. Precooked 5 days of food on Sunday.

Here is meal 1 & 2 of 7 for Heath

Meal 1
8 egg whites
8 oz top sirloin steak
Lawry’s Steak Rub seasoning
1 1/2 cups oatmeal
Total consumption: 745 calories, 101g protein, 38 carbs, 21g fat

Meal 2
12 oz sirloin steak
Lawry’s Steak Rub seasoning
1 1/2 cups white rice
Total consumption: 939 calories, 104 g protein, 80 g carbs, 22 g fat
 
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