I want to do Cardio after Lifting (on depeleted Glycogen)

[SJA]

I always do cardio after lifting. Wolf said it best......unless you are totally depleted you aren't going to chew up muscle. I've heard this complaint for years and it seems that it always comes from guys who hate cardio and don't seem to ever be shredded. I've even experimented to the point of doing iron cardio after lifting. It seems that unless my caloric intake is WAY low and carbs non existent, my muscle mass sticks around. Same goes for a few other s who have endured the lab rat testing trials with me.

morning cariod on an empty stomach is extremely popular and works well too. For those of you who swear by morning cardio, it's the same state......no glycogen stores due to hours without food. The body kicks in a little glycogen naturally via cortisol but then starts burning fat.

 

[scarl3tbutt3rfly]

When I do cardio ….I usually do it after weight training, but I don't drink a shake afterwards. My cardio at most after training is only like 20-30 min, so I don't usually worry about eating something to prevent muscle breakdown. IMO if you consume something, you may halt any fat breakdown. Your body will use what is available to it, and even consuming whey may cause that process to stall. I'd personally wait til after cardio to consume your whey, but that is just my opinion.

I think there are different ways to get the same outcome and everyone is different. IMO if it is working for you, stick to it.

I have done HIIT workouts and I've done steady state. The last couple of years what has worked best seems to be steady state, fasted in am, then after lifting. But that is me. I don't have these sessions be too long and are moderate in intensity. This prep I may integrate HIIT again, I haven't really decided but it is also up to my trainer too, since I only do what he recommends. Either way, good luck!

 

[Wolf]

I'm going to get my hands on a study I referenced in another thread. The study basically stated that glucose consumption does no interrupt fatty tissue oxidation.

 

[Lizard King]

Good thread so far.....

 

[MAYO]

I'm going to get my hands on a study I referenced in another thread. The study basically stated that glucose consumption does no interrupt fatty tissue oxidation.

No disrespect Wolf....but as a student of biochemistry, I have to see this. Sounds misquoted at best.

 

[Wolf]

None taken. This is from a 2008 study.

Effect of training in the fasted state on metaboli... [J Appl Physiol. 2008] - PubMed result
Skeletal muscle gene response to exercise depends on nutritional status during and after exercise, but it is unknown whether muscle adaptations to endurance training are affected by nutritional status during training sessions. Therefore, this study investigated the effect of an endurance training program (6 wk, 3 day/wk, 1-2 h, 75% of peak Vo(2)) in moderately active males. They trained in the fasted (F; n = 10) or carbohydrate-fed state (CHO; n = 10) while receiving a standardized diet [65 percent of total energy intake (En) from carbohydrates, 20%En fat, 15%En protein]. Before and after the training period, substrate use during a 2-h exercise bout was determined. During these experimental sessions, all subjects were in a fed condition and received extra carbohydrates (1 g.kg body wt(-1) .h(-1)). Peak Vo(2) (+7%), succinate dehydrogenase activity, GLUT4, and hexokinase II content were similarly increased between F and CHO. Fatty acid binding protein (FABPm) content increased significantly in F (P = 0.007). Intramyocellular triglyceride content (IMCL) remained unchanged in both groups. After training, pre-exercise glycogen content was higher in CHO (545 +/- 19 mmol/kg dry wt; P = 0.02), but not in F (434 +/- 32 mmol/kg dry wt; P = 0.23). For a given initial glycogen content, F blunted exercise-induced glycogen breakdown when compared with CHO (P = 0.04). Neither IMCL breakdown (P = 0.23) nor fat oxidation rates during exercise were altered by training. Thus short-term training elicits similar adaptations in peak Vo(2) whether carried out in the fasted or carbohydrate-fed state. Although there was a decrease in exercise-induced glycogen breakdown and an increase in proteins involved in fat handling after fasting training, fat oxidation during exercise with carbohydrate intake was not changed.


Full article Effect of training in the fasted state on metabolic responses during exercise with carbohydrate intake

 

[MAYO]

Study is a good read for anyone interested. I guess 1+2 doesn't always equal 3, when you factor in the body's ability to adapt to environment. Good find Wolf.

 

[slicwilly2000]

MAYO,

Can you put this in english for us? I don't understand what that study is saying.

Slic.

 

[goldy]

The only thing i dont like about that study is it doesn't say how stressful the cardio is or what the heart rate was. if the HR was over 180, sure they will break down protein for energy if no glucose\glycogen\sugar\whatever is available...

 

[Wolf]

Goldy, the abstract to the article I posted stated the intensity.

"Therefore, this study investigated the effect of an endurance training program (6 wk, 3 day/wk, 1-2 h, 75% of peak Vo(2)) in moderately active males."

And Slic the study basically says that with the training regiment over 6 weeks fasted cardio did not burn more fat than non-fasted cardio.

An interesting point in the full study was that the fasted cardio group actually preserved muscle glycogen levels at a much better rate than the fed group did.

 

[PillarofBalance]

BCAAs in supplement form however, are free form BCAAs and require no digestion and are therefore rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, spiking blood amino acids to a much greater extent than peptide bound amino acids. Even a few grams of BCAAs will spike plasma levels of BCAAs to a much greater extent than a 30g dose of whey protein, impacting protein synthesis and protein degradation to a much greater degree. The reason a supplement has such a powerful effect on blood levels of BCAAs is that unlike other amino acids, BCAAs are not metabolized to a significant extent by the small intestine or the liver, therefore an oral supplement is more like a BCAA injection since it reaches the bloodstream so rapidly."

I'd definitely wanna see a source for this... Sounds like it came off a muscletech product label bro.

 

[PillarofBalance]

So does this mean that the old idea of doing your cardio before breakfast is crap??? Can I stop waking up so damn early now lol???

None taken. This is from a 2008 study.

Effect of training in the fasted state on metaboli... [J Appl Physiol. 2008] - PubMed result
Skeletal muscle gene response to exercise depends on nutritional status during and after exercise, but it is unknown whether muscle adaptations to endurance training are affected by nutritional status during training sessions. Therefore, this study investigated the effect of an endurance training program (6 wk, 3 day/wk, 1-2 h, 75% of peak Vo(2)) in moderately active males. They trained in the fasted (F; n = 10) or carbohydrate-fed state (CHO; n = 10) while receiving a standardized diet [65 percent of total energy intake (En) from carbohydrates, 20%En fat, 15%En protein]. Before and after the training period, substrate use during a 2-h exercise bout was determined. During these experimental sessions, all subjects were in a fed condition and received extra carbohydrates (1 g.kg body wt(-1) .h(-1)). Peak Vo(2) (+7%), succinate dehydrogenase activity, GLUT4, and hexokinase II content were similarly increased between F and CHO. Fatty acid binding protein (FABPm) content increased significantly in F (P = 0.007). Intramyocellular triglyceride content (IMCL) remained unchanged in both groups. After training, pre-exercise glycogen content was higher in CHO (545 +/- 19 mmol/kg dry wt; P = 0.02), but not in F (434 +/- 32 mmol/kg dry wt; P = 0.23). For a given initial glycogen content, F blunted exercise-induced glycogen breakdown when compared with CHO (P = 0.04). Neither IMCL breakdown (P = 0.23) nor fat oxidation rates during exercise were altered by training. Thus short-term training elicits similar adaptations in peak Vo(2) whether carried out in the fasted or carbohydrate-fed state. Although there was a decrease in exercise-induced glycogen breakdown and an increase in proteins involved in fat handling after fasting training, fat oxidation during exercise with carbohydrate intake was not changed.


Full article Effect of training in the fasted state on metabolic responses during exercise with carbohydrate intake