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High cholesterol... bad results from lipid panel

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dan gable

VIP Member
Dec 27, 2017
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Really not trying to sound like an ass but if you did var research you will find really quick that it tanks HDL and wreaks havoc on a lot of peoples lipid panels.

It should go back to normal once the cycle is over.

Var isn't liver toxic, but that doens't mean its not stressing your body in other ways. Var has been harsher on my lipids then Dbol in the past.


I appreciate the response DieYoungStrong. I should have done my research on Var since I was taking it. It has such a big reputation as being mild, that I just took that as fact.
 
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dan gable

VIP Member
Dec 27, 2017
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Yes, it's more than likely the oral AAS you are taking. It's different user to user, but in your initial post, seeing the low HDL and high LDL and non-HDL, that is textbook oral results. You are on 120mg/d of orals, for long periods, they are wreaking havoc on your lipid panel results. I would recommend d/c orals as much as you possibly can, and at most 1-2x/yr for 4-6 week durations. Most guys who try to keep healthier lipids, if they want better values, limit them to the final weeks of a cutting prep. Other guys just run them a few weeks prior to a strength/PL meet. The rest of the year, they do not use them.....well, guys who do not care about their health will keep running them, but that is an individual decision one must make.

Also, if you run higher dosed Aromatase Inhibitors (AI's), they can and will effect the same values as well.

Doses, length on drug, age, will all play a factor.

A statin can improve the values, at least with regard to LDL, but it will only help so much for a user on 120mg/d of orals and for long durations. Your diet looks fairly good, and you are active as well. It has to be the oral and any AI if you are taking one. If it were me, i'd drop the orals either now, or at the end of this run if you have a goal that you are working toward...if not, then i'd drop them now.


Thanks for the detailed response! I am off the orals now. To your point, I do care about my health so you know what, I am not going to run orals again. It's not worth getting coronary artery disease and having a heart attack or worse...a stroke.

Thanks for the advice!
 
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dan gable

VIP Member
Dec 27, 2017
74
45
It’s definitely the AAS, the orals in particular.
To resolve, simply go off the orals and allow some time to readjust.
Avoid statins — statins are fucked.

Yea I read up on them and that is not a road I want to go down!
 
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Bilter

VIP Member
Jun 7, 2011
199
258
Thanks for the detailed response! I am off the orals now. To your point, I do care about my health so you know what, I am not going to run orals again. It's not worth getting coronary artery disease and having a heart attack or worse...a stroke.

Thanks for the advice!
Just to be sure you are aware, Stanozolol (Winstrol) will do the same thing as will any 17 alpha alkylated steroid, even if you inject it. Some will say it won't because you avoid "first pass" through the liver. It always ends up in the liver, thats what the liver is for ;-)
 
midevil

midevil

TID Board Of Directors
Jan 20, 2011
1,459
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How did your lipids typically look prior to this blood draw?

Also make sure you’re hydrated prior to retesting bro.
 
MorganKane

MorganKane

VIP Member
Nov 12, 2012
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785
Will do. Yes, I was on an orals when I took the lipid test...var and tbol. More details below.

Var alone will screw up your lipids.
Kills HDL alone.
Get off the orals for a month and restest
Doesnt matter how clean your diet is when you are on orals it seems.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
5,847
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I concur with what everyone is saying. I absolutely love var and tbol, and I like them even more taken together, so I'm very sympathetic. But I'm very confident that this bloodwork is very heavily influenced by the var/tbol.

You likely don't have to drop them forever, but the high-dose, long duration use will need to end, and go to using them sporadically.
 
MR. BMJ

MR. BMJ

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 21, 2011
1,219
1,224
I think you are making a good move brother. Get everything back to normal as possible for a good while, get labs done again in a few months, and then reassess.

I didn't want to sound like a scare-mongerer though, so I don't think you have to never use any oral again ever. I would just suggest getting the most out of what you can using just test, or test and other injectables, then use an oral for a short duration to finish off a cutting phase once a year, or to get you past a sticking point. If you are able to get labs done, i'd use those as your guide on future decisions.

One thing to keep in mind, is that if you are out of range with lipids the whole duration of a cycle, say, 6-12+ weeks, then get off and get them back into normal again after a month or so, then decide to jump back on for a few more months (whether it's orals or injectables that effect your lipids) with out of whack lab values, then you are still spending the majority of the year with messed up lipids. I see some guys who spend most of the year 'on' with out of whack labs, then they get excited because they get them back to normal for a very short measly period of time before they get back 'on' with a cycle that puts them back out of whack, and I just do not feel it's really doing them any justice toward health.

If you spend the majority of the year 'on' with just test or compounds that do not necessarily effect your lipids that much, then that one time out of the year where you jump on an oral for 6-8 weeks, should be minimal toward any detrimental (hopefully) sides, or unhealthy heart conditions. This is where getting labs done 3-4x/yr will help you see what compounds (and their doses) effect you worse, or hopefully none/minimal at all. Sometimes a drug at 2x amount will have an effect, but if you drop it down in the amount, say 1x, then it may be a lot healthier....i'm speaking ore in terms of injectables, as even small doses of orals seem to effect lipids....at least for many.

Seeing that you are in your 30's, I think you are being wise. You can still have fun, you just have to be a little smarter as you age:)

Hey, let us know how it goes for you. Also, some labs will take a while to get back to normal for some people.

For kidney, make sure your BP and blood sugar are in check, and stay hydrated. They liver will be healthier via diet and not relying on orals as well. The liver is a little more forgiving.
 
rot-iron66

rot-iron66

Member
Oct 30, 2022
33
50
Get off all orals and go on TRT only for 4 months, and go get re-checked.
You need to know your real readings. Those are steroid-induced readings. Most people crash on gear/orals, etc...
Calcium score is OK to know, but far from the big picture. It does not show you waxy plaque (the stuff that kills).

If you show some calcium, it will spark all the follow-up tests, which is good. If you show no-calcium, it does not kick-off all the other tests and you wont know.
Like my friend Pete. Zero calcium, almost died from Window-Maker blockage (plaque).

CAC gets thrown around the forums like its be-all, tell-all, and its very far from it...
 
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searay

VIP Member
Dec 20, 2017
652
554
Statins suck unless you're predisposed to having low hdl and high ldl and end up on the steal table getting your chest cracked open for a bypass. Once the plaque starts to build up your fucked cause it's gonna continue till the arteries are clogged. You may slow it down some by getting your lipids in line but you really need to keep on top of this. If your doctor gave you a script for a statin I would highly recommend using it until the problem is fixed and then titrate off if you can.
 
rot-iron66

rot-iron66

Member
Oct 30, 2022
33
50
Statins suck unless you're predisposed to having low hdl and high ldl and end up on the steal table getting your chest cracked open for a bypass. Once the plaque starts to build up your fucked cause it's gonna continue till the arteries are clogged. You may slow it down some by getting your lipids in line but you really need to keep on top of this. If your doctor gave you a script for a statin I would highly recommend using it until the problem is fixed and then titrate off if you can.
I've been on low-dose simvastatin for 16 years. Only side-effect is low-T, now corrected w/ TRT.
Testosterone is made in our cholesterol, knock it down with statins, T-levels go down w/ it.
Like every drug, some see side sides from it, some see none.

Many anabolic users are injecting bath-tub brew, orals, peptides, etc. (Not really knowing where they are made).

But a statin!! No way... (LOL)
Statins also calcify plaque and seal it from rupture. calcium showed up in my CAC test.
It was just in spots where it calcified plaque from bursting. My follow up visual stress tests showed zero blockages, 65% ejection fraction at age 56. (This is like a very good number).
So Im good to go. All valves open and working correctly.

Many uninformed today think ZERO calcium is great, and some is very bad. Not the case all the time.
My buddy had zero calcium, and then widow-maker bypass from undetected plaque. (CAC does not show you soft plaque).

While statins are way over-prescribed, if a familial issue w/ very high Trig's and LDL, they are needed and do a good job of protecting from plaque rupture.
 
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dan gable

VIP Member
Dec 27, 2017
74
45
rot-iron66.... you said "While statins are way over-prescribed, if a familial issue w/ very high Trig's and LDL, they are needed and do a good job of protecting from plaque rupture"

But my triglycerides are not high at all...
 
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