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Hcg pre pct help

AWARE72

AWARE72

MuscleHead
Oct 17, 2010
323
18
#13
Clomid damages the optic nerve, causing vision impairment.
It was my understanding this is only at high doses...

Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism, Shabsigh A, Kang Y, Shabsign R, Gonzalez M, Liberson G, Fisch H, Goluboff E., J Sex Med. 2005 Sep;2(5):716-21.

AIM: Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio. METHODS: Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

RESULTS: The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 +/- 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 +/- 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4-6 weeks),the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 +/- 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

CONCLUSIONS: Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism.This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

Study showing a hypogonadic 30-year old male, suffering permanent shutdown from steroid abuse, fully recovered natural hormone levels and HPTA function from 2 months of 100mg Clomid therapy:
 
Like_a_Weed

Like_a_Weed

MuscleHead
Jan 25, 2011
399
7
#14
Well since I won't have the hcg until near the end of my cycle anyway, I'm kinda thinking Seabass's pct is gonna be what I use.

Hey brotha seabass, how many cycles have you run using this pct? It looks pretty solid.

Thanks!
 
usa

usa

MuscleHead
Dec 24, 2010
272
32
#17
1000iu ED for 10 days works well for me. Or you can goto Dr Crislers website and check out his protocol. I'm too lazy right now to dig it up for you.
 
AWARE72

AWARE72

MuscleHead
Oct 17, 2010
323
18
#18
Swales Protocol AKA as Dr Crisler

"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid),he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."
 
Like_a_Weed

Like_a_Weed

MuscleHead
Jan 25, 2011
399
7
#19
I was gonna start a thread with this question but maybe I can get it answered here:

When I get my hcg should I mix it with the solution it comes with or do I need something else like bacteriostatic water to store it?
 
SHINE

SHINE

MuscleHead
Oct 11, 2010
5,047
599
#21
I was gonna start a thread with this question but maybe I can get it answered here:

When I get my hcg should I mix it with the solution it comes with or do I need something else like bacteriostatic water to store it?
Bac water, It can be easily found. 30ml for about $5 or less.
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#22
I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.
This paragraph is VERY important for people who do not blast and cruise.... there is no such thing as bridging. If you are getting any gains from a product it's likely suppressing your natural testosterone function. Do not try to be smarter than your body! If you want to be a PCT guy, do it the right way and just suck it up and work harder during PCT. If that doesn't sound like an option for you then GTFO or consider TRT....plain and simple folks
 
A

Awakened615

Senior Member
Mar 1, 2011
106
24
#23
I have to agree with aware and GS. You cant trick your body. Any synthetic substance you put in your body will cause the body to shutdown the naturally occurring method in the body. This goes for all chemicals in your body norepinephrine, endorphins, serotonin, you can even go as far as melanotan shutting down your naturally occurring melanin in the body. You CAN NOT TRICK IT because it shuts itself off and there is nothing you can do except stop and wait for it to turn itself back on. Plain and simple. Your brain controls everything your body does. and it knows when there is an outside source of something coming into it.
 
Like_a_Weed

Like_a_Weed

MuscleHead
Jan 25, 2011
399
7
#24
What about natural test boosters? What about using sarms? Is there anything useful to use between cycles to help maintain your gains made during cycle? I've never done pct, I'm nearing the end of my first cycle. I really tried to talk myself into staying on (blast and cruise) but know that I need to come off completely but getting stronger and bigger is addicting, it's so unbelievably satisfying. I plan to use hcg for the last month of my cycle (I know I should have started sooner but too late) then nolva/clomid for pct. I also have post-cycle from protien factory, and bridge and unleashed from need to build muscle.
 
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