Gyno or Lower Chest Fat

[dr jim]

Nice job Jasthace.

It looks like they were too pre-occupied with the old dog on the porch to notice the young dog in the yard pissing on their leg.

At least you could provide some support for your banter "BG" as DocD did above. Come out of that dog house and join the scientific world fella, because apparently you believe whether it's pis, rain or "milk", matters not, because it's ALL WATER, the source matters not.

Jim

 

[dr jim]

High levels of estrogen inhibit lactation.
Estrogen levels also drop at delivery and remain low for the first several months of breastfeeding.[SUP][3][/SUP] Breastfeeding mothers should avoid estrogen-based birth control methods, as a spike in estrogen levels may reduce a mother's milk supply.

Progestogens in turn are precursors to all other steroids, including the estrogens, androgens, mineralocorticoids, and glucocorticoids. Thus, all tissues producing steroids, such as the adrenals, ovaries, and testes,prostate must be capable of producing progestogens.

One of the main regulators of the production of prolactin from the pituitary gland is the hormone called dopamine, which is produced by the hypothalamus, the part of the brain directly above the pituitary gland. Dopamine restrains prolactin production, so the more dopamine there is, the less prolactin is released. Prolactin itself enhances the secretion of dopamine, so this creates a negative feedback loop.In humans, prolactin is produced both in the front portion of the pituitary gland (anterior pituitary gland) and in a range of sites elsewhere in the body.

Lactotroph cells in the pituitary gland produce prolactin, where it is stored in small containers called vesicles. Prolactin is released into the bloodstream by a process called exocytosis. Human prolactin is also produced in the uterus, immune cells, brain, breasts, prostate, skin and adipose tissue.


High levels of estrogen inhibit lactation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolactin

I really don't know what this Wiki drivel is supposed to refute or support but using PREGNANT LACTATING females as a comparison for 19-Nor AAS users is absolutely absurd.

Of course to much or to little E-2 effects lactation in PREGNANT females, it's called a negative feedback loop common to normal endocrine functioning.

As I've mentioned previously the final common pathway in the 19Nor/E-2/Prolactin is the rise of ESTROGEN, whether it's a LOCAL intra-mammary phenomenon is irrelevant since D-2 agonists have NO influence on breast tissue.

While I also agree, with the essence of DocD's case study post, it's important to acknowledge AAS users would have no reason to develop the deranged physiology analogous to that of patients with Pituitary Macro-adenomas, where it's been shown either the prolactin or dopamine secreting HTPA cells are either up or down regulated.

Moreover if the TT-E-2-Prolactin association was a plausible explanation for 19-Nor gynecomastia, then ANY AAS would be expected as a potential etiologic agents!

Finally while it's also true the initial precursors for sterols is cholesterol rather than progesterone, an additional absurdity is the statement the PROSTATE GLAND is somehow an ENDOCRINE gland, NOT! The prostate gland is however actively involved in the male reproductive tract. First as a conduit and Second as a capacitor for sperm lubrication, but it is NOT involved in "progesterone precursor" sex hormone production whatsoever.

So indeed you can either dazzle them with brilliance or mystify them with ignorance!

 

[dallas]

I have absolutely no Idea what all this means :sorry: . But in my book . . . . If something taken by man makes him lactate like a female ?????? It has no place in the male body, unless its keeping him alive from illness in some way. That's what I think anyhow and I will go with that for now.

 

[Docd187123]

I have absolutely no Idea what all this means :sorry: . But in my book . . . . If something taken by man makes him lactate like a female ?????? It has no place in the male body, unless its keeping him alive from illness in some way. That's what I think anyhow and I will go with that for now.

Testosterone can cause elevated PRL which could then go on to cause lactation.

 

[CBS]

I really don't know what this Wiki drivel is supposed to refute or support but using PREGNANT LACTATING females as a comparison for 19-Nor AAS users is absolutely absurd.

The wiki drivel is a classic example of how the misapplication of data creates bro science. Knowing that E-2 must decline post gestation in order for lactation to occur is all it will take for the bros to decide they can mitigate their 19-nor induced PRL increases by letting their E-2 levels rise. LOL

Moreover if the TT-E-2-Prolactin association was a plausible explanation for 19-Nor gynecomastia, then ANY AAS would be expected as a potential etiologic agents!

Any AAS EXCEPT trenbolone, that is!

 

[1bigun11]

At least you could provide some support for your banter "BG" as DocD did above. Come out of that dog house and join the scientific world fella, because apparently you believe whether it's pis, rain or "milk", matters not, because it's ALL WATER, the source matters not.

Jim

I am not sure what "banter" you are referring to that needs scientific support or how you could reasonably conclude anything about my personal beliefs from a post that says, "Nice job Jasthace."

 

[dallas]

SOOOO! Bodybuilders are wrong and going off old information. And doctors now know more, but bodybuilders choose to ignore the new information.

People always tell me AAS wont harm you if taken properly. Doctors say don't take them as they can seriously harm you. ???? who to trust ?????

I only asking!

 

[Docd187123]

SOOOO! Bodybuilders are wrong and going off old information. And doctors now know more, but bodybuilders choose to ignore the new information.

People always tell me AAS wont harm you if taken properly. Doctors say don't take them as they can seriously harm you. ???? who to trust ?????

I only asking!

You can take AAS properly yet still develop complications. You can also take AAS and not get any. I always go by the scientific method and supplement that info, which is sometimes lacking, with anecdotal evidence. Personally I refuse to rely solely on anecdotal evidence.

 

[CBS]

SOOOO! Bodybuilders are wrong and going off old information. And doctors now know more, but bodybuilders choose to ignore the new information.

People always tell me AAS wont harm you if taken properly. Doctors say don't take them as they can seriously harm you. ???? who to trust ?????

I only asking!

Neither. The fact is, no one can answer that question with certainty. Bodybuilders look at anecdotal evidence and assume they're safe and 99.9% of doctors are completely ignorant about AAS and follow the party line.

That's why it's important for everyone to learn how to read the literature so they can make *informed* decisions about their AAS use.

CBS

 

[dr jim]

Testosterone can cause elevated PRL which could then go on to cause lactation.

NOT!

What your referring to is a classic type one research.error, applying a SPECIFIC event to an general occur acne as a means of predicting future outcomes.

The huge problem? There are no reports, case series, or evidence that TT increases prolactin absent the deranged HTPA common to MACROPRILACTINOMAS mentioned in your case report. NONE!

Well by golly if such was the case EVERY BB using AAS would have BITCH TITS, lol!

Respects
Jim

 

[dr jim]

SOOOO! Bodybuilders are wrong and going off old information. And doctors now know more, but bodybuilders choose to ignore the new information.

People always tell me AAS wont harm you if taken properly. Doctors say don't take them as they can seriously harm you. ???? who to trust ?????

I only asking!

Any drug can harm you! Taking them as directed certainly diminishes the chances of adverse effects.
These are the known complications from AAS EVEN if used appropriately;
1) Erythrocytosis
2) HTN
3) Dyslipidemia
4) suppressed HTPA functioning
5) gonadal atrophy
6) hypogonadism
7) infertility
8) gynecomastia
9) erectile dysfunction
10) and LAST but not LEAST, irrational thought on behalf of long term users,

Regs
Jim

 

[Docd187123]

NOT!

What your referring to is a classic type one research.error, applying a SPECIFIC event to an general occur acne as a means of predicting future outcomes.

The huge problem? There are no reports, case series, or evidence that TT increases prolactin absent the deranged HTPA common to MACROPRILACTINOMAS mentioned in your case report. NONE!

Well by golly if such was the case EVERY BB using AAS would have BITCH TITS, lol!

Respects
Jim

The following is a quote from Dr. Scally

The answers to your questions are fairly obvious. If the compound aromatizes, interacts with the estradiol receptor, then there will be an effect on prolactin secretion. The same effects would be expected in a "healthy" person taking AAS. The abstracts above address the questions directly. The estradiol produced from testosterone in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) will "overpower" the negative dopamine agonist effect of cabergoline, therefore the use of an aromatization inhibitor.

Not to make an appeal to authority but are you saying he's wrong?