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Got bloodwork back - need PCT advice

Stinky Tofu

Stinky Tofu

Member
Aug 3, 2013
96
15
#1
FSH 12.3 (1.5-12.4)

LH 18.5 (1.7-8.6)

E2 113 (28-156)

test 15.2 (8.64-29)

clomid at 50mg for 4 weeks.

Should I just quit now? Obviously the pituitary works but test is low. I attribute that to insomnia. I have not had any deep, quality sleep for months.

am cortisol was at 710 (171-536)


ive ive been seriously over training and took a week off. Digestion improved as did mood and energy, but I can not sleep. I take sleeping pills now and even then they are metabolized in a few hours and I'm wide awake. I couldn't find any scientific literature but is there a correlation between super high LH and cortisol? I need my test higher, but I don't think that's gonna happen till I'm sleeping and eating properly(not eating enough for BMR, insomnia and cortisol makes me have no appetite.) I quit all caffeine weeks ago. I just walk an hour everyday and do stretching. I would say I'm in the 2nd stage of overtraining. Obviously my adrenals work but they are working too hard. Libido is gone. I'm retaining a lot of water. My belly will just swell up out of nowhere. My tongue is huge and swollen. If I train, I can't sleep at all. I'm just wired for 4 days straight, meanwhile wanting to kill everyone. All other bloodwork was normal including a full thyroid panel.


Do I stop the clomid? Taper it for another week?


Long rant. Thanks in advance
 
T

texastea

VIP Member
May 1, 2013
56
3
#2
Why did you start the clomid protocol? How much effect did it have?
 
Stinky Tofu

Stinky Tofu

Member
Aug 3, 2013
96
15
#3
Why did you start the clomid protocol? How much effect did it have?
Why? PCT from a short test cycle. The effects are all previously mentioned, unless you are referring to my cycle... which was not very suppressive. Test at 500mg for 6 weeks.
 
M

MortenBB

Member
Jul 31, 2012
33
2
#5
Are you taking any preworkouts or stimulants? You could try melatonin in addition to the sleep meds before bed for better sleep? Carbs before bed usually make me pretty sleepy, maybe you can try that :)

I dont think your testosterone is _that low_ to be honest, it'll probably be creeping slowly back up :)

I would'nt even bother with pct for a 6 weeker of test. Maybe some nolvadex but no way clomid...
 
Stinky Tofu

Stinky Tofu

Member
Aug 3, 2013
96
15
#6
I would'nt even bother with pct for a 6 weeker of test. Maybe some nolvadex but no way clomid...
Well, I initially felt symptoms of low T a while back. Biggest issue has been sleep and overtraining. I'm 6ft, 240 23%bf and on some days I struggle to eat 2,000 calories. The harder I train, the worse I feel. After legs I can't sleep for 2-3 days and I have zero appetite. Anyways, I thought a short cycle to "prime" myself and then 10 days of HCG and then 1-3 months of clomid. I've read the studies and research in using clomid mono therapy for secondary hypogonadism, especially in overtrained athletes. On cycle I made nice gains but I was struggling with sleep and my mood was a disaster. I expected the test would allow me to maintain the intensity levels without getting overtrained symptoms. I was wrong.

Fast forward to now, I still can't sleep and if I train I can't sleep or eat. I've decided to take at least a full month off from everything except walking and mild biking. Mood has improved. Hunger is going up and digestion is improving after 10 days with no weights. I'm gonna keep my calories at about 3,000. 200g protein, 100g fat, the rest in carbs. Problem is I haven't slept for 3 days. I get all these hypothyroid symptoms but labs are fine and yesterday and today I took my body temp and it was normal. Meanwhile, insomina, muscle aches, foggy headed, fatigued, a bit of depression and heightened anxiety I've also got a major swollen tongue and water retention. Weight shot up almost overnight with no change in diet.

Do I just need more time to recover? Obviously sleep is probably the major issue here, and I'm wondering if the clomid is making it worse or if the elevated test via clomids action will eventually get me sleeping better. I suppose there is no harm in just stopping clomid for a few weeks and seeing how I feel. I do piss a lot more and lose my bloat when I get calories up and digestion is good.

Eat 3,000 calories a day. Stretch, walk, yoga, bike. Stop clomid. Reassess in 3-4 weeks?
 
Stinky Tofu

Stinky Tofu

Member
Aug 3, 2013
96
15
#7
Are you taking any preworkouts or stimulants? You could try melatonin in addition to the sleep meds before bed for better sleep? Carbs before bed usually make me pretty sleepy, maybe you can try that :)

I dont think your testosterone is _that low_ to be honest, it'll probably be creeping slowly back up :)
Quit drinking coffee and any stims. Melatonin kinda works. It gets me drowsy but I just sit there in bed. I'll fall asleep for an hour and then wake right back up. I'm taking my carbs from 1-200g to 4-500g.
 
Fanofiron

Fanofiron

VIP Member
May 11, 2014
221
55
#8
Your cortisol is prob high because your estro is sky high. Hard to say what your true levels are. Once u stop clomid wait 4-6 weeks and re-test to see where u really are at. With serms in the system pretty useless to get labs IMHO.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#9
Stop the Clomid and repeat the cortisol in 2-3 months.

(And FYI, LH secretion does NOT effect ACTH production)

Jim
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#10
Stop the Clomid and repeat the cortisol in 2-3 months.

(And FYI, LH secretion does NOT effect ACTH production)

Jim
 
Stinky Tofu

Stinky Tofu

Member
Aug 3, 2013
96
15
#11
Your cortisol is prob high because your estro is sky high. Hard to say what your true levels are. Once u stop clomid wait 4-6 weeks and re-test to see where u really are at. With serms in the system pretty useless to get labs IMHO.
E2 is not bad. It's in pmol/L which equates to 30.78 in pg/ml. I took 25mg of aromasin split up over last week. I got some night sweats so I stopped. I read about guys using aromasin daily at 12.5-25mg during PCT but wouldn't that drop 30.78 down to an uncomfortable number very quickly? I'll get more bloods in a few weeks. I would like to be able to check em EOD but that's not a reality.
Stop the Clomid and repeat the cortisol in 2-3 months.

(And FYI, LH secretion does NOT effect ACTH production)

Jim
Been 3 days since last clomid. Libido is meh but actually better than on cycle. I wonder if clomid affects thyroid like some say. I monitor my body temp and during the afternoon it gets to about 100F, 98.3F in the morning.

I'm tempted to use a light amount of aromasin. You think it's a good idea?
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#12
E2 is not bad. It's in pmol/L which equates to 30.78 in pg/ml. I took 25mg of aromasin split up over last week. I got some night sweats so I stopped. I read about guys using aromasin daily at 12.5-25mg during PCT but wouldn't that drop 30.78 down to an uncomfortable number very quickly? I'll get more bloods in a few weeks. I would like to be able to check em EOD but that's not a reality.


Been 3 days since last clomid. Libido is meh but actually better than on cycle. I wonder if clomid affects thyroid like some say. I monitor my body temp and during the afternoon it gets to about 100F, 98.3F in the morning.

I'm tempted to use a light amount of aromasin. You think it's a good idea?
Hmm since your E-2 levels is absolutely normal what is it that your treating with Aromasin?

Seriously what sign or symptoms do you believe is more likely to improve (rather than worsen) with a further reduction of E-2, since in this instance Aromasin is apt to reduce E-2 below the reference range.

Incidentally I'm unaware of any evidence the use of either SERMs or AIs result in symptomatic thyroid dysfunction or significantly alter thyroid function which would require therapeutic intervention. Consequently unless people support what they are "saying" with legitimate data, suggestions to the contrary approximate "broscience" IMO.

Lastly in fairness to others whom are trying to provide assistance, such as Landofiron, INCLUDING the LAB units would be most appropriate. Otherwise critical, abnormal, normal or indeterminate lab values morph into one huge unknown, and leads us all NOWHERE!

regs
jim
 
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