GnRH Log

[Dangling Unit]

Well i was always told to begin PCT after 3 days of prop. So gimme a break brohem.

Ester is not the only variable in PCT start date, dose is another big variable. It is a very big misconception in our world to base PCT strictly off what ester you were using and I feel this is a big contributor to why people don't recover correctly. What were you taking beforehand?

 

[KBD]

Ester is not the only variable in PCT start date, dose is another big variable. It is a very big misconception in our world to base PCT strictly off what ester you were using and I feel this is a big contributor to why people don't recover correctly. What were you taking beforehand?

Prop, only been prop.

 

[Dangling Unit]

Prop, only been prop.

How much?...

 

[KBD]

How much?...

200mg a week for about 10 weeks and 400mg for about 3 weeks. Bumped up the dosages.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

doesn't look terrible, usually for me prop is done by day 10, or at least TT is back to normal, regardless of my dose.

couple things i would change next time.

no need for torem or clomid, they both act lik an estrogen at pituitary to stim GNRH, since trip already does that there is no need, besides we gotta be careful with trip, too much stimulation at the pituitary can cause chemical castration.

so all you need after trip is nolva, and very little, just to keep TT from falling from negative feedback loop.

also adex with PCT is not the best idea, SERM's dramatically affect their effectiveness. Aromasin, since its not affected by the concurrent use of SERM, is best to use in PCT.

 

[KBD]

doesn't look terrible, usually for me prop is done by day 10, or at least TT is back to normal, regardless of my dose.

couple things i would change next time.

no need for torem or clomid, they both act lik an estrogen at pituitary to stim GNRH, since trip already does that there is no need, besides we gotta be careful with trip, too much stimulation at the pituitary can cause chemical castration.

so all you need after trip is nolva, and very little, just to keep TT from falling from negative feedback loop.

also adex with PCT is not the best idea, SERM's dramatically affect their effectiveness. Aromasin, since its not affected by the concurrent use of SERM, is best to use in PCT.

Well i guess im screwed then, i was told to keep using SERMs even after GnRH use, so thats what ive been doing. 120mg of torem everyday for the past week. Now im being told not too. Im confused.

 

[Dangling Unit]

You should never use an AI in PCT. Never.

KBD, since it seems your PCT is being pulled all over the place, just start tapering off your torimefene. Finish this week at 120-mg, next week to 60-mg, the following 30-mg, and finally finish with 15-mg. Wait a few weeks after your final torimefene dose and go get your blood work done. You may have recovered, or you may not have. If not, we'll get you on an hCG and clomiphene regimen.

 

[KBD]

You should never use an AI in PCT. Never.

KBD, since it seems your PCT is being pulled all over the place, just start tapering off your torimefene. Finish this week at 120-mg, next week to 60-mg, the following 30-mg, and finally finish with 15-mg. Wait a few weeks after your final torimefene dose and go get your blood work done. You may have recovered, or you may not have. If not, we'll get you on an hCG and clomiphene regimen.

Thats what i was doing, 120/90/90/60

Ill do your method though and get some labs. I was also told to run a small dose clomid with it... (25mg), dont see why it would hurt i took 2 doses of clomid (2 25mg doses in the past 2 days).

However ill just continue Torem and taper. Thanks DU.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Well i guess im screwed then, i was told to keep using SERMs even after GnRH use, so thats what ive been doing. 120mg of torem everyday for the past week. Now im being told not too. Im confused.

your going to recover just fine KBD. Im just telling you how to adjust it for the future. It's ok to use Nolva with trip, but using clomid or toremifine is just not necessary.

When you tack a shot of trip, it stimulates endogenous production so well, that LH and FSH will be lowered due to the high amount of T floating in your blood stream. So the only reason we would use Nolva is to offset that negative feedback loop.

In the Italian Study with the bodybuilder that used trip and in 1 case with Dr. crisler, no SERM's were use at all, and HPTA was restored.

so we dont HAVE to take any SERM, a small dose of Nolva is just a back up.

we dont want to use HCG, Clomid, Torimefene too close to Trip cause we dont want to over stimulate pituitary.

Dangling Unit, im surprised you say you should never use an AI in PCT, Aromasin has worked well for me, and many others I have suggested it too. I HIGHLY suggest Aromasin with Trip, it is sure to cause Aroma.

 

[Dangling Unit]

The rebound using an AI is too detrimental. An AI lowers estrogen and indirectly lowers SHBG; therefore, increasing free testosterone. Estrogen increases SHBG; therefore, not allowing free testosterone to reach artificial levels. Yes, we want our testosterone levels to increase, but we want them to increase using our balls, not by allowing them to increase because there's no mechanism to limit it.

By allowing estrogen to remain, our natural testosterone recovers. An AI won't suppress all estrogen, but it suppresses it enough to not allow us to make a full recovery. Stop the AI used during PCT, estrogen elevates, free testosterone drops, and you have this roller coaster effect as your body tries to return to homeostasis.

Speaking from a strictly estrogen aspect, using a SERM doesn't suppress estrogen. It just limits it from getting to certain receptors. We want estrogen during recovery, just as we do while on cycle.

 

[Dangling Unit]

Thats what i was doing, 120/90/90/60

Ill do your method though and get some labs. I was also told to run a small dose clomid with it... (25mg), dont see why it would hurt i took 2 doses of clomid (2 25mg doses in the past 2 days).

However ill just continue Torem and taper. Thanks DU.

Why 120/90/90/60? What's the purpose of the two 90 weeks?

There's nothing wrong with taking clomiphene in PCT. It helps recovery.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

The rebound using an AI is too detrimental. An AI lowers estrogen and indirectly lowers SHBG; therefore, increasing free testosterone. Estrogen increases SHBG; therefore, not allowing free testosterone to reach artificial levels. Yes, we want our testosterone levels to increase, but we want them to increase using our balls, not by allowing them to increase because there's no mechanism to limit it.

By allowing estrogen to remain, our natural testosterone recovers. An AI won't suppress all estrogen, but it suppresses it enough to not allow us to make a full recovery. Stop the AI used during PCT, estrogen elevates, free testosterone drops, and you have this roller coaster effect as your body tries to return to homeostasis.

Speaking from a strictly estrogen aspect, using a SERM doesn't suppress estrogen. It just limits it from getting to certain receptors. We want estrogen during recovery, just as we do while on cycle.

I understand all that, but there is no rebound with aromasin and it has been shown to keep levels within normal range at doses up to 25mg ED in men not taking any testosterone. So i dont see the issue here.

not to mention that trip has been shown to shoot TT all the way to 1,000........so im sure there will be plenty of E regardless of aromasin use. PCT is better with aromasin, it helps to avoid estrogen dominance.