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GHRH and GHRP a basic Protocol and explanation

B

Bilter

VIP Member
Jun 7, 2011
53
14
#1
I posted this at the end of another thread here but thought it may be useful to some if I made the info available on its own thread...

First a basic protocol:
In effort to list a protocol for the use of GHRP / GRF / and in combo with GH if desired I thought I would post my current protocol based upon the research I have done within the last year or so. Obviously the information I gathered is not based on medical studies completed by me but I do use the following protocol myself and have been pretty damed impressed with the results. Recovery from injury is very impressive to me (any kind of injury). Example, 5 days ago I was lifted by the butt of a tree I cut down (long story). I had bruising and some serious raspberry on my under arm, left quad and my abs ( the but of the tree ran right up the front of my once it got under my arm it lifted me and tossed me about 10 feet through the air). Its been 5 days and all that is left of the raspberries are some faint red marks......amazing IMO.

Also: I encourage others to do their own research. Don't think all that I have written below is gospel or the only / best way to run these peptides. This is nothing more than my interpretation of what I have read and what I perceive as the best way to use peptides.

Best Choices for GHRP's.

GHRP-6 Good GH spike when used with a GRF, large increase in hunger. Elevates prolactin and cortisol levels
GHRP-2 Good GH spike, when used with a GRF, on par with GHRP-6 without the hunger. Elevates prolactin and cortisol levels
Ipamorelin good GH spike when used with a GRF. GH spike is not as high as GHRP-2 or 6 but it does not elevate prolactin or cortisol.


Note: in order for a GHRP to have a positive affect and create a GH spike alone one as to be very lucky in the timing and hope it is injected at time when Somatostatin is low in the body. Somatostatin blunts GH release in the presence of just GHRP. Using GRF will override the signal presented by Somatostatin so you will get a very dramatic GH pulse.


GRF's (GHRH)
Two choices

Mod GRF 1-29 (aka CJC 1295 w/o DAC),higher GH peaks, short half life (30 minutes) most closely mimics your bodies own GH pulses but far greater amplitude
CJC 1295 long half life (7days). Lower GH amplitude when used with GHRP, raises the troughs in the bodies GH level profile, the downside is it creates GH bleed. Think of the GH as being stored in a jar until someone (thing) opens up the faucet. It is best if the jar is full and then dumps. CJC does not allow the jar to fill. Current recommendations are to avoid CJC


Saturation dose for any of the GHRH's or GHRP's including Ipamorelin is 100mcg (or 1mcg / kg of bodyweight) so this is all based on a 100mcg dose.

As you may know, it is best to pin 1.5 to 2 hours after eating any fats or carbs and then after you pin don't eat any fats or carbs for 20-30 minutes as they will blunt the GH release. Pure protein is OK but I try to avoid all foods. Also, pure protein is OK anytime prior to pinning.


Dosings should be 3 hours apart or more.

Mornings upon waking pre cardio (if you are doing any),afternoon (or PWO) and before bed pin mod GRF 1-29 / GHRP (or Ipamorelin) @ 100mcg / 100mcg. (2 pinnings per day are also adaquate for improvements in recovery, better sleep etc. 3 will make you a bit more anabolic than 2 and you can even go 4 if the pocket book allows.

If you include GH in this protocol it should be 10 minutes after the peptides. So, first pin the peptides, wait 10-15 minutes and then pin your GH. Reason being is that Exogenous GH administration can also blunt GH release.

Wait 20-30 minutes after pinning the peptides and you are free to eat.

When you recon your peptides use as little BW as you can. I don't go as low as some people because I figure I don't want to leave a drop of highly concentrated peptide in the vial that I can not get out. The less BW used for recon the less the degradation of the peptide over time.

If you premix a shot ahead of time, don't let it sit mixed for more than 8 hours or so. When mixed they will exchange ions and who know what the final compound would be called :). I actually have a way to preload without mixing the peptides until I am ready to pin it.

Do not pin IGF within 1 hour of pinning your peptides. IGF has a feedback loop that inhibits GH release.

With the above for pinning around workouts to get the most of your investment....

Pin insulin (humalin R) immediately PWO
wait 10 minutes pin peptides
If using GH wait 10 more minutes and pin the GH (see above for reasoning)
If using IGF wait approx. 1 hour PWO and pin the IGF.

IGF blunts GH release. another reason to wait is in effort to keep the IGF local you want to wait until you lose your pump. Blood flow is reduced in teh area of injection. if you pin IGF immediately PWO blood flow is still very high so the IGF get transported away too quickly..


For convenience...
Pin insulin Pre work out.... Humalin R is active for 4-5 hours
PWO pin peptides (or if you want to pin slin and peps at the same time PWO)
10 minutes after peps pin GH if you are using GH
30-60 minutes PWO pin IGF if using IGF

This post has been edited by Bilter: Oct 15 2010, 01:05 PM



Here is a very simplified explanation of the process.
I have spent a lot of time over the last 9 months or so trying to understand how GRF / GHRP works in the human body. Given that I do not have any formal schooling in micro-biology I have to turn events into everyday type activities so that I can visualize / understand them.
Many seem confused about why there is a synergistic process that occurs when GRF and GHRP are used together and what role somatostatin plays in the whole GH release picture. Below I will summarize how I visualize the process. It is very simplistic and ignores many of the details of what is going on but it works well in my simple mind and allows me to remember how this stuff actually works.

For this process I picture the pituitary gland as being a hopper with a drain valve located at the bottom. This hopper is filled with marbles that represent GH.

There is a person (somatostatin) sitting at the drain valve. He is in charge of opening and closing this valve. As we age, he has more influence on keeping the valve closed. The hopper is full of GH but Somatostatin will not let anyone open the valve to any great extent. GRF (GHRH endogenously) wants to open the valve but cant. If Somatostatin goes on a break (a period of GH peak) and leaves the valve unattended the GRF can crack open the valve some, say 10%. If somatostatin is present (period of GH trhough) GRF can trick somatostatin into opening the valve fractionally, say 2%. We get some release but the trough is still a trough albeit a little bit higher.
GHRP is like a big brother to GRF. When working alone GHRP can force somatostatin to go on break and open the drain valve to say 80%. We get a good dump of GH whether we are in a trough period OR a peak period.

Now, if we introduce GRF and GHRP TOGETHER, GHRP sends somatostatin away on break so that GHRP and GRF can work together on opening the drain valve. Together they get it to open 120% (I use 120 to demonstrate synergy) and we get a complete dump of the GH hopper.

CJC 1295 is a peptide that tricks somatostatin to leaving the valve cracked causing GH bleed. GH bleed is not the ideal situation because GH receptors in body tissue do not have time to clear.

Keep in mind GRF and GHRP, on a micro level, actually work via different pathways but the above is a good illustration of what functionally is occurring.
 
B

Bilter

VIP Member
Jun 7, 2011
53
14
#2
Re: GHRH and GHRP a basic Protocol and explinaion

here is a bit more scientific explanation..

Also think of things this way.

There are 3 components, well lets say 4 if you count somatotrophs which are GH releasing cells.

Somatotropin inhibits GH release and is responsible in large part to GH pulsation (when its activity is low it allows a pulse)
GHRH (or GRF exogenously) initiates the GH pulse (but will not sustain it in the presence of high somatostatin activity)
Ghrelin (or GHRP exogenously) modulates the GH pulse

GRF and GHRP cause GH release via 2 different pathways, this is why their actions are synergistic.
GHRP acts directly on somatotrophs to cause a GH release and potentiate the effects of GRF. Also, GHRP is essentially an antagonist of somatostatin..... that is why by itself it can initiate a sizable GH release.
GRF causes cAMP production in somatotrophs, GHRP has no effect on cAMP.
When the 2 are combined GHRH's effects on cAMP production are amplified.
GHRH stimulates GH release through protein kinase A pathway, GHRP through protein kinase C..

So why is there a synergy between GRF and GHRP? GHRP is a GHS (growth hormone secretagogues) and has the ability to bind Growth Hormone Secretagogues receptors (GHS-R) thereby effecting GH release. It affects GH release in a couple of ways. First it induces GHRH to be released from the hypothalamus, once released this GHRH makes its way to the pituitary gland where it binds with Growth Hormone Releasing Receptors (GHRH-R). Once bound signals for GH release. GHS (GHRP) also makes its way to the pituitary gland where it can also bind with GHS-R and signal its own GH release. GHRH and GHRP signal GH release through completely different pathways. This is why the effects are synergistic.

Finally, GHS (GHRP) influence GH release by reducing the release of somatostatin from the hypothalamus and by reducing somatostatin inhibiting action once it binds to receptors in the pituitary. GHRH (GRF) does not have this influence over the actions of somatostatin.

So, GHS (GHRP) turns up the the signal to release GHRH, turns down the signal to release somatostatin, tells GH releasing cells in the pituitary gland to release GH while also telling them to ignore the message from somatostatin to stop releasing GH....




Hope this helps. I understand it better after I have to type out what I think I know...... If anyone notes errors here please post up!!
 
AllTheWay

AllTheWay

TID Lady Member
Mar 17, 2011
4,240
411
#3
Re: GHRH and GHRP a basic Protocol and explinaion

great info! thanks for sharing!
 
mugzy

mugzy

Administrator
Staff Member
Aug 11, 2010
4,794
1,662
#4
Re: GHRH and GHRP a basic Protocol and explinaion

Nice post Bilter..... great info.
 
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MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#5
I think another point people can take away from this is the one made about localized IGF being put to good use. I think too many people pin IGF immediately post workout looking for that localized growth. When RBC count is elevated, the IGF will ride the train out of town, so to speak. But if you wait until maybe an hour post workout, it's gotta wait for a car to hitch-hike out of town and can get some work done on his laptop while he's waiting (terrible analogy, I know, lol).

Another similar point I want to make is that if you are using localized site-specific injections of IGF in order to promote REPAIR specifically, you want to split your doses more often throughout the day. Many people will pin 100 mcg 1 or 2 times per day. In reality, you are trying to heal something that's broken so you don't want to pound it with IGF and then let it sit. It's like throwing 100 pitches in a row in baseball without having a break between innings. Pin the igf in 40-50mcg increments 4-5 times throughout the day. Is it pretty inconvenient? Yes, I would say so. BUT, you are not using it in the typical BB sense, you are using it for recovery. Any of you who have done physical therapy know there is nothing quick or convenient about it. The same can be said for supps like BCAAs and waxy maize. You're not gonna notice outstanding results immediately, but over time with a dedicated focus, you'll be gald you put forth the effort.
 
AllTheWay

AllTheWay

TID Lady Member
Mar 17, 2011
4,240
411
#6
and another point i would like to make is that GS injected into the ventral glute......... never mind, no point :D
 
B

Bilter

VIP Member
Jun 7, 2011
53
14
#7
I think another point people can take away from this is the one made about localized IGF being put to good use. I think too many people pin IGF immediately post workout looking for that localized growth. When RBC count is elevated, the IGF will ride the train out of town, so to speak. But if you wait until maybe an hour post workout, it's gotta wait for a car to hitch-hike out of town and can get some work done on his laptop while he's waiting (terrible analogy, I know, lol).


Another similar point I want to make is that if you are using localized site-specific injections of IGF in order to promote REPAIR specifically, you want to split your doses more often throughout the day. Many people will pin 100 mcg 1 or 2 times per day. In reality, you are trying to heal something that's broken so you don't want to pound it with IGF and then let it sit. It's like throwing 100 pitches in a row in baseball without having a break between innings. Pin the igf in 40-50mcg increments 4-5 times throughout the day. Is it pretty inconvenient? Yes, I would say so. BUT, you are not using it in the typical BB sense, you are using it for recovery. Any of you who have done physical therapy know there is nothing quick or convenient about it. The same can be said for supps like BCAAs and waxy maize. You're not gonna notice outstanding results immediately, but over time with a dedicated focus, you'll be gald you put forth the effort.
Good points! I especially like your suggested protocol while using IGF for healing. I honestly had never thought of it that way yet it makes perfect sense.. I must admit, I no longer use IGF but if I were to use it for injury repair that is the protocol I would implement.
 
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MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#10
Oh, and I forgot to say, excellent post Bilter!

One more thing... some people fail to realize that only EXOGENOUS peptides have the possibility of site specific action. It doesn't matter where you pin GHRH or GHRP because they are just signalers. It can't signal anything locally, the signal has to come from the hypothalamus to increase production output. So, if you're looking for localized fatloss, look to gh instead of peps. And the same goes for injuries. GHRH and GHRP will help, but a site specific exogenous IGF-1 LR3 will be much more effective in the long run.
 
B

Bilter

VIP Member
Jun 7, 2011
53
14
#11
Thanks and you are all welcome.
I've been studying (and using) this stuff for over 1 year now....maybe 2 years :-o Im not as smart as I would like to be so it forces me to take notes and convert it to something I understand. Just though I would share some of what I have learned on this journey :)
 
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