GH and tired

[Heady Muscle]

What do you guys do to combat GH lethargy? Even 1-2 iu EOD leaves me very tired. If I drop it for a week it goes away. I've repeated that over and over with the same result. Coffee has no impact. I would like to stay away from stims that race the heart. Modi is like crack in me so that is out at least as a primary drug to combat the problem. I am only on TRT at 100-150 mg/w so not really getting the CNS stim from androgens. Maybe that is a contributor.

Taurine was always best for me while running GH. The fatigue is one of the major reasons I will not run GH again (besides being diagnosed with cancer).

 

[Kluso]

Taurine was always best for me while running GH. The fatigue is one of the major reasons I will not run GH again (besides being diagnosed with cancer).

For energy? Taurine is a weird one. They put it in energy drinks and I see it in sleep aid pills. I started taking 1000mg twice a day to help with cramps and at first couldn’t figure out why I was so tired after my workouts in the morning. Dropped my morning taurine dose and it was better. If I recall taurine can make caffeine work better but when taken alone makes you relaxed. I was talking it with my caffeine filled preworkout and still made me tired. Probably individual. Also I have a high tolerance to caffeine now. But now I just take it with dinner.

 

[Kluso]

Maybe berberine is the answer glucose induced lethargy. (or metformin or other glucose disposal agent. I wonder how ALA would do? One must just find the right dose.

Also...

It lowers cholesterol and may reduce your risk of heart disease​

Heart disease is currently the leading cause of death around the globe (17Trusted Source).

Many factors that can be measured in the blood are associated with an increased risk of heart disease.

As it turns out, berberine has been shown to improve many of these factors.

According to a review of 16 studies, it could help (18Trusted Source):

• lower total cholesterol
• lower LDL (bad) cholesterol
• lower blood triglycerides
• increase HDL (good) cholesterol

It has also been shown to lower apolipoprotein B by 13-15% in some older studies, which is an important risk factor for heart disease (19Trusted Source, 20Trusted Source).

According to some research, berberine works by inhibiting an enzyme called PCSK9. This leads to more LDL cholesterol being removed from the bloodstream (21Trusted Source).

Keep in mind that diabetes, high blood sugar levels, and obesity are also major risk factors for heart disease, all of which seem to be improved with this supplement (7Trusted Source).

Given the beneficial effects on all these risk factors, it seems likely that berberine could reduce the risk of heart disease, though more research is needed.

I have been reading about the cholesterol effects too. I’m hoping it will help with my ldl like citrus bergamot did because I’m fairly certain I am allergic to citrus bergamot. Should find out soon.

 

[Glycomann]

For energy? Taurine is a weird one. They put it in energy drinks and I see it in sleep aid pills. I started taking 1000mg twice a day to help with cramps and at first couldn’t figure out why I was so tired after my workouts in the morning. Dropped my morning taurine dose and it was better. If I recall taurine can make caffeine work better but when taken alone makes you relaxed. I was talking it with my caffeine filled preworkout and still made me tired. Probably individual. Also I have a high tolerance to caffeine now. But now I just take it with dinner.

I take it everyday for cramp prevention and it works for me. Been doing it for years.

 

[Kluso]

The only bad thing about Berberine is that it fucks with mTor and could reduce muscle gains. Scott Stevenson suggests not taking it around your workouts. At least when training to grow. At least that’s what the research suggests.

 

[Glycomann]

The only bad thing about Berberine is that it fucks with mTor and could reduce muscle gains. Scott Stevenson suggests not taking it around your workouts. At least when training to grow. At least that’s what the research suggests.

I wonder how much it makes a difference. I'm on TRT 100 mg/w + 50 mg/w Primo and 1 iu GH EOD, pretty much HRT with Primo as an AI replacement/ slight bit of anabolic. I have not really noticed a shift in recovery or strength. In fact I seem to fill in better with berberine. I take it in the morning and occasionally again around dinner time if I want to get the filling in thing.

 

[Kluso]

I wonder how much it makes a difference. I'm on TRT 100 mg/w + 50 mg/w Primo and 1 iu GH EOD, pretty much HRT with Primo as an AI replacement/ slight bit of anabolic. I have not really noticed a shift in recovery or strength. In fact I seem to fill in better with berberine. I take it in the morning and occasionally again around dinner time if I want to get the filling in thing.

Apparently it makes some people flat but I feel more full on it too. Which you would think would be better for anabolism. I have used it before weight training and can’t say I have noticed a difference. I wonder myself. And how individual it can have a negative effect.

 

[Kluso]

And wouldn’t the better insulin sensitivity offset the mTor effects?

 

[Kluso]

Atrogin-1 affects muscle protein synthesis and degradation when energy metabolism is impaired by the antidiabetes drug berberine - PubMed

Berberine impairs muscle metabolism by two novel mechanisms. It impairs mitochonidrial function stimulating the expression of atrogin-1 without affecting phosphorylation of forkhead transcription factors. The increase in atrogin-1 not only stimulated protein degradation but also suppressed...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This study isn’t promising either!

 

[Kluso]

And not only does it inhibit mTor but MEK/ERK pathway also.

Berberine inhibits enterovirus 71 replication by downregulating the MEK/ERK signaling pathway and autophagy - PubMed

BBR inhibited EV71 replication by downregulating autophagy and MEK/ERK signaling pathway. These findings suggest that BBR may be a potential agent or supplement against EV71 infection.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The more I read the worse it looks for protein synthesis. Berberine is great for your health in many, many ways. Blood sugar, cholesterol, liver disease, kidney disease and even fights cancer cell growth. But not great for muscle growth, apparently. My thoughts are don’t use it if in a bulk phase. But for maintenance and cutting it’s a great addition.

 

[Glycomann]

Apparently it makes some people flat but I feel more full on it too. Which you would think would be better for anabolism. I have used it before weight training and can’t say I have noticed a difference. I wonder myself. And how individual it can have a negative effect.

The filling in happens after being in a semi fasted state and or after training and hungry. It would happen anyway but is more pronounced with berberine it seems. I don't really see much happening during training unless you get the filling in times before workout.

 

[Glycomann]

Atrogin-1 affects muscle protein synthesis and degradation when energy metabolism is impaired by the antidiabetes drug berberine - PubMed

Berberine impairs muscle metabolism by two novel mechanisms. It impairs mitochonidrial function stimulating the expression of atrogin-1 without affecting phosphorylation of forkhead transcription factors. The increase in atrogin-1 not only stimulated protein degradation but also suppressed...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This study isn’t promising either!

I guess BBers are a different sort of animal.