Female Outliers?

[Tobit]

Hi folks, I’m chasing some thoughts as we navigate things for my wife. My wife is 46, we’ve been married for 22 years and have had 10 children together. Her genetics are freaky, she’s Romanian, utterly stunning looking woman with skin from the gods and people almost fall over in shock to hear she has had 10 children. Had no problems with pregnancies or births, and most our babies went on or over 5kg. The woman is tough, rugged and blessed.

She ran her first ever PED cycle of Var a ways back. Felt nothing, titrated up from 2.5mg to twice daily then increased dosage steadily over time, and I stopped her at 32.5mg per day. It wasn’t dbol as that would have had an effect, it might have been low dose but reputable source which deals with comp BB’s.

We ran labs, everything I know Var does was there, yet no benefits, no feeling after the cycle. Nothing. Diet in, lifting and cardio dialled in.
Labs showed it crushed her SHBG from 75 to 15, Cortisol high, ALT high, T not high, very low, nor free T. So thoughts appreciated.

First question. I have a friend who asked me the colour of pills, u said ‘yellow’, he suggested ‘real Var’ should be ‘red’, that his wife ran her cycle and shifted a lot of fat and gained 2.5kg of muscle, and had great life benefits otherwise. I’ve never heard or read that Var is or should be ‘red’ in colour though? Thoughts please?

Next, we started her on T Eth, IM, (250/ml strength) 5mg twice weekly in 2 pins. Nothing. Moved her up to 7.5mg twice weekly, nothing. Moved her up to 10mg weekly, nothing. Moved her up to 12.5mg twice weekly, nothing! She’s gone 6 weeks so far, not a thing in feeling or change, nothing. No sides either. The T is good, i use it and it’s literally recovered my life. I also used another reputable brand (300ml strength) and still nothing. She just took 20mg in one pin and nothing?

My wife is still cycling, and for the last 6 weeks has been regular twice no difference in her mensus at all since starting.

Shortly, I’ll run a full run of labs on her, including a full thyroid panel. The woman is on no medications, is healthy and strong, however her T is at the level of our post menopausal friend and that was before starting anything. I will check her iron and look at E2 and P as well in the next run also.

My next question is though, could she be a serious outlier? Has anyone seen someone like this before and do you have any thoughts. I want her optimised in her life, mood, energy, cognitive function, libido, fat shifting and muscle building as she needs it. She’s presently 80kg at 5:9” and so a good 10-15kg to lose yet also. Her goal is to have visible abdominals and muscular.

sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[rawdeal]

Hi folks, I’m chasing some thoughts as we navigate things for my wife . . . .
sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for your thoughts.

It is a long post, it is an interesting post that deserves a bump ... no need to be sorry.

 

[Tuffoldman]

I would start with the labs. "Feeling" is not a good gauge if your gear is working or not. Yes, at those doses she should feel stronger, should feel a little more aggression or drive, I would think in 6 weeks that those dose of testosterone she would have an increase of some sort but labs are going to answer all your questions.

 

[BovaJP]

@Tobit welcome to the den and thanks for posting for your wife.
We certainly welcome wifes/girlfriends what have you to post on their own as well. Good to hear from them.

I would say you have a unique situation, but Tuffoldman is right, bloodwork is the tell tale sign of what is going on. Odd about not reacting to some compounds.

But....what are the goals here? Depending upon what goals.....you said you have goals for her and she has goals of visible abs and muscular, but those are pretty vague.
BTW...i'm a female, and i love to lift other women up in the gym and support....so having good, tangible, measurable goals set will set you up for success.

 

[tommyguns2]

@Mike_RN may have some insight here. He's got a decent amount of experience working with female athletes.

@Wilson6 may also be able to chime in here.

 

[Tobit]

I would start with the labs. "Feeling" is not a good gauge if your gear is working or not. Yes, at those doses she should feel stronger, should feel a little more aggression or drive, I would think in 6 weeks that those dose of testosterone she would have an increase of some sort but labs are going to answer all your questions.

Thanks TFM, I agree. Our journey has come from Low T, and TRT, not really cycles for BB, and that world is all about putting ‘how you feel’ above ‘labs’ and chasing numbers. I’ve done a substantial amount of reading on this subject as well as anecdotal testimonies but always looking for more. What I found for T eth IM was either 2x5mg (10mg) per week up to 2x11mg per (22mg) was the most typical for women to ‘feel’ good, (mood, cognitive, libido etc) not necessarily see fat shifting and anabolic gains at this doses although the change in feeling had them wanting to exercise more etc,
I probably need to get some T Prop or something with a short ester rather than Enanthate so that I can confidently titrate up in single doses each week and see where she actually feels ‘something’ to confirm she’s just an outlier or whether it’s something else.
A woman who works at a HRT clinic said in a post once that she has seen most women feel good at 20mg per week but others need right up to 50mg per week, that’s what I’m dubious of, as that’s a lot of T for a woman and we dont want androgenic affects.
I have to run labs but I don’t have any doubt it’s got to have done something even if lift her Estrodial through aromatase. But that’s why I opted for 3 pin weekly routine of 10mg (30mg weekly) before giving her 20mg in one hit, as pin frequency drop SHBG, and causes more stable levels.
Other than that we just keep trying to go up in 1 pin of a higher dose slowly to see if she feels anything.

 

[Tobit]

@Tobit welcome to the den and thanks for posting for your wife.
We certainly welcome wifes/girlfriends what have you to post on their own as well. Good to hear from them.

I would say you have a unique situation, but Tuffoldman is right, bloodwork is the tell tale sign of what is going on. Odd about not reacting to some compounds.

But....what are the goals here? Depending upon what goals.....you said you have goals for her and she has goals of visible abs and muscular, but those are pretty vague.
BTW...i'm a female, and i love to lift other women up in the gym and support....so having good, tangible, measurable goals set will set you up for success.

Thanks Bova, yes I’ve been reading a lot of your posts trying to glean info you might have even right back I think to 2017 mate, so thank you kindly and thank you for the welcome, it’s good to be here, I have a lot to learn.

My wife and I are very close, we tend to not want to do anything unless we do it together. She has always wanted to BB, and be muscular and fit but lacked the know how, life and children got in the way (excuses…there r no excuses lol). I want to help her achieve her goals. Along with that, she has just seemed to die off in zest for life, mood, no libido etc, but the woman will work all day, won’t sit still, is a phenomenal mother and wife and keeps on keeping on. We ran labs on her as I had began trt after a 3 year journey of trying everything to resolve my low T without success. Her labs came back extremely low in T. When we compared them to our post meno friend, she had the same T as our friend, yet she has no symptoms of meno at this stage.
I hope that claries a bit better mate. Just looking for any gaps that might assist here as the T Enath is good, I feel great but after that much Var with no benefit or feeling and just thrashed labs, then 3x10mg pins on her per week,(30mg), then 1 pin of larger 20mg dose and 6 weeks still nothing? Not even a single chin hair lol.

 

[genetic freak]

First, there are outliers everywhere, male and female. I have seen guys who need 300 mg of test a week just to get them into the normal range of test. While I have others that 300 mg of test places their total test about 2000. Estrogen is the same. Seen people have estrogen levels in the 200's on TRT.

Second, there is no specific color for Anavar. There are so many sources and manufacturers out there, both pharmacy and UGL with all sorts of variations.

I am with the others. Get labs done. I recently had a male client on 300 mg of test who said he didn't feel anything. Pulled labs and his total test was 1719 and estrogen was 220. Had a female client on 5 mg of test a day who also said she didn't feel anything, but her test levels increased over 10x her baseline labs. Both seen results regardless of feelings.

 

[Tobit]

First, there are outliers everywhere, male and female. I have seen guys who need 300 mg of test a week just to get them into the normal range of test. While I have others that 300 mg of test places their total test about 2000. Estrogen is the same. Seen people have estrogen levels in the 200's on TRT.

Second, there is no specific color for Anavar. There are so many sources and manufacturers out there, both pharmacy and UGL with all sorts of variations.

I am with the others. Get labs done. I recently had a male client on 300 mg of test who said he didn't feel anything. Pulled labs and his total test was 1719 and estrogen was 220. Had a female client on 5 mg of test a day who also said she didn't feel anything, but her test levels increased over 10x her baseline labs. Both seen results regardless of feelings.

Cheers mate. Been reading plenty of past posts of yours and some good commentary I’ve gleaned from you, so thanks. This is the sort of stuff I’ve been wanting to find more of in all honesty. I’m aware with test also too that largely it’s safe, even at high doses so long as it’s not repeated especially regarding women. The old consensus with doctors has been to jam 60mg straight into a woman per fortnight. They had reasoned that high dose T in women, so long as it wasn’t repeated before the drug had left the system then virilisation wasn’t lasting. Many still do it today also.
So technically we are early in the game for her and something will get dialed in eventually as we won’t quit in getting her base optimised and once the body has settled, we’ll have optimised base labs to then work her further towards her goals with BB and Pharma.
It’s good to hear you’ve got that strange variety of outliers from hyper sensitive to can’t feel it at high doses, to others whose labs go up with the littlest to others that don’t.

 

[BD Cool]

Often times the lack of results lies in the training and diet (or lack thereof), not the drugs. I'm not saying that is the case here, but I've had friends who take AAS and expect to grow easily... while skipping days in the gym and eating fast food 3 times per day.

Once again, I'm not saying this is what is happening with your wife. I would follow the advice of others, get some lab work done and then move on from there.

 

[genetic freak]

Often times the lack of results lies in the training and diet (or lack thereof), not the drugs. I'm not saying that is the case here, but I've had friends who take AAS and expect to grow easily... while skipping days in the gym and eating fast food 3 times per day.

Once again, I'm not saying this is what is happening with your wife. I would follow the advice of others, get some lab work done and then move on from there.

Often... I would say it is 95%. They miss a couple meals a week or do not eat all of their meals. They eat in excess. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes out of ignorance. Haven't had a client yet who doesn't cheat on their diet. Some tell me and others will lie to your face and take it to their grave that they didn't despite me having proof. Significant other IG accounts are awesome for telling on clients. I don't even search, they just tag my client in their reel or story, so it pops up on my timeline and I see it.

Everyone thinks they train hard because they sweat in the gym. Then they train with someone who trains with a lot of intensity and they end up laying on the floor, praying they are going to survive. I would say, if you are not the guy people stop and watch train in the gym, you are not training hard enough.