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EQ/Boldenone

fasttwitch

fasttwitch

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Mar 17, 2011
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A paper I came across. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29148625/

Interesting what happened when they added boldenone to the mix. It's one of the AAS that's a high ROS generator. Certainly doesn't appear to be renal friendly.

I have no good knowledge to add to this post. But intuitively I can almost imagine this effect from boldenone. I've used both deca and EQ. I wonder if the researchers can separate out (group 2) nandrolone and boldenone from each other? It looks like group 2 had both? Which one caused the issue? My hunch is that EQ would be the culprit though. Generally on EQ my blood pressure and kidney values increase. Seems to make sense.

Interesting.
 
W

Wilson6

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Dec 17, 2019
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I have no good knowledge to add to this post. But intuitively I can almost imagine this effect from boldenone. I've used both deca and EQ. I wonder if the researchers can separate out (group 2) nandrolone and boldenone from each other? It looks like group 2 had both? Which one caused the issue? My hunch is that EQ would be the culprit though. Generally on EQ my blood pressure and kidney values increase. Seems to make sense.

Interesting.
I tried to upload a very recent animal study using Boldenone, file is too big. Ref Frontiers | Boldenone Undecylenate-Mediated Hepatorenal Impairment by Oxidative Damage and Dysregulation of Heat Shock Protein 90 and Androgen Receptors Expressions: Vitamin C Preventive Role | Pharmacology (frontiersin.org) for the full paper. The animals were given 5 mg/kg/wk, divide that by about 6 to get the equiv human dose, we're talking 1 mg/kg, that's not much. Victor Black has been very outspoken about the risks of EQ and we don't have any clinical human studies on it. We have a mountain of human studies over decades on ND with dosing up to 600 mg/wk without any serious side effects. To each his/her own but if one can manage with T vs EQ, esp longer term, probably best to stick with T. EQ generates considerable ROS, no organ system will do well with that, the brain included.
 
fasttwitch

fasttwitch

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Mar 17, 2011
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I tried to upload a very recent animal study using Boldenone, file is too big. Ref Frontiers | Boldenone Undecylenate-Mediated Hepatorenal Impairment by Oxidative Damage and Dysregulation of Heat Shock Protein 90 and Androgen Receptors Expressions: Vitamin C Preventive Role | Pharmacology (frontiersin.org) for the full paper. The animals were given 5 mg/kg/wk, divide that by about 6 to get the equiv human dose, we're talking 1 mg/kg, that's not much. Victor Black has been very outspoken about the risks of EQ and we don't have any clinical human studies on it. We have a mountain of human studies over decades on ND with dosing up to 600 mg/wk without any serious side effects. To each his/her own but if one can manage with T vs EQ, esp longer term, probably best to stick with T. EQ generates considerable ROS, no organ system will do well with that, the brain included.

Hmm, good points. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Test E. It's even in my Iron Den signature, haha. Test E I've had zero problems with, even at high doses.

I wonder about Tren? I love Tren too. But my god, the effects I get from it are awful. It's hard for me to imagine tren isn't equally as problematic as EQ. Of course, a little tren goes a longggggg way. Where EQ is slow and takes a lot more, at least for me.
 
5.0

5.0

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Nov 3, 2012
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I ran eq at 600/wk for 10 wks and honesty I felt pretty shitty with minimal gains. 400 of deca would've been better imo
 
W

Wilson6

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Hmm, good points. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Test E. It's even in my Iron Den signature, haha. Test E I've had zero problems with, even at high doses.

I wonder about Tren? I love Tren too. But my god, the effects I get from it are awful. It's hard for me to imagine tren isn't equally as problematic as EQ. Of course, a little tren goes a longggggg way. Where EQ is slow and takes a lot more, at least for me.
There is a growing body of lit that suggests that the 19-nors are the most neurotoxic (all AAS even T at some point will become neurotoxic), Tren falls in that box for sure. We don't have years of clinical data on Tren like we do ND that has been used clinically for decades. Estrogen and DHT appear to be neuroprotective, one reason T is the best all around base drug. Warhead nailed it, Test, Primo, Mast and Var if the plan is long-term enhancement would likely present the lowest risk, esp if the base (cruise) was mostly T with perhaps some Mast and maybe a little ND (50 - 100 mg/wk) if you're one of those guys that really does get some joint relief with it. There was a study done in 1973 on Mast P for gyno, 50 mg/wk, it shrunk the gyno. There was no effect on LFTs or other blood chems. IMO, just my thinking, a good base high end HRT would be 100 - 150 TC, 50 mg MP and 30 - 50 mg ND (total) per week done with EOD dosing (not to exceed 250 mg total a week). If E2 becomes a problem add a little more MAST and cut back the T a little to find that balance without an AI. Minimize the C-17's and stick to VAR if you use them. Obviously, get blood chems 2 - 3 times a year and an echo baseline and maybe every other year, liver US if you use the C-17's.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
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There is a growing body of lit that suggests that the 19-nors are the most neurotoxic (all AAS even T at some point will become neurotoxic), Tren falls in that box for sure. We don't have years of clinical data on Tren like we do ND that has been used clinically for decades. Estrogen and DHT appear to be neuroprotective, one reason T is the best all around base drug. Warhead nailed it, Test, Primo, Mast and Var if the plan is long-term enhancement would likely present the lowest risk, esp if the base (cruise) was mostly T with perhaps some Mast and maybe a little ND (50 - 100 mg/wk) if you're one of those guys that really does get some joint relief with it. There was a study done in 1973 on Mast P for gyno, 50 mg/wk, it shrunk the gyno. There was no effect on LFTs or other blood chems. IMO, just my thinking, a good base high end HRT would be 100 - 150 TC, 50 mg MP and 30 - 50 mg ND (total) per week done with EOD dosing (not to exceed 250 mg total a week). If E2 becomes a problem add a little more MAST and cut back the T a little to find that balance without an AI. Minimize the C-17's and stick to VAR if you use them. Obviously, get blood chems 2 - 3 times a year and an echo baseline and maybe every other year, liver US if you use the C-17's.


Would body weight, as well as, body composition govern the dose amounts?...Or would u still stick with these doses?...
 
W

Wilson6

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Would body weight, as well as, body composition govern the dose amounts?...Or would u still stick with these doses?...
Many of the oxandrolone studies in children and burn victims were based on mg/kg body mass dosing. Never seen that approach to HRT in the lit (guys and FTM trans), almost always the end point criteria is to get total T within the normal adult male range 400 - 1100 or so. I think we all know having a T of 400 vs 1100 does make a difference over the long haul. I've seen comments on this board where guys are taking as little as 25 mg TC EOD and have blood conc of T in the 1100 range, that's about 87.5 mg/wk avg, there are women at the gym on that dose (script) and only avg about 450 ng/dl T conc. Other guys are taking 175 a week and are in the 800's. So much variability from person to person relative to rate of appearance of the drug to rate of disappearance of the drug. It's not as simple as give X dose and see X conc in the blood. What I mentioned above is just my thoughts, not a recommendation by any means. The best approach is to see what works best for you and keeping in mind you don't want your total T blood levels much over 1000 if that is the long term base plan, including MAST or ND that won't be measured in the LC/MS-MS T assay. You'd have to assume that if 100 mg of T = X blood conc after X days, then that same X dose of MAST or ND will give the same total blood conc if it were T, and that's a stretch. In the end, come up with a minimal risk plan and implement, give it about 3 months and assess. Fine tune if necessary. Check general chem labs (liver, renal and lipids) and total T (LC/MS assay).
 
trentracks

trentracks

TID Board Of Directors
Apr 23, 2011
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Eq was and still is one of the first steroids I built a tolerance to and cannot use anymore took about a year. Used too do tren and boldy for about a year straight then lower back pain became a big problem of course the dosage was high but that’s how trenny rolls. Back to tren E only ,200 mg every 4 days and I now require midodrene to raise my bp to function at anytime at anything I am not your role model at anything but being a survivor of ICU stays these days hahaha true story
 
R

rawdeal

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 29, 2013
4,337
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Eq was and still is one of the first steroids I built a tolerance to and cannot use anymore took about a year. Used too do tren and boldy for about a year straight then lower back pain became a big problem of course the dosage was high but that’s how trenny rolls. Back to tren E only ,200 mg every 4 days and I now require midodrene to raise my bp to function at anytime at anything I am not your role model at anything but being a survivor of ICU stays these days hahaha true story

I had to google midodrene, but I've always believed what we can learn via google about most things can be improved by listening to anyone who's been there, done that. Survivors of ICU stays in particular probably have much they can teach those of us who've been more fortunate ... so far. Never know when any one of us might wind up in a bed near yours, and board handles don't appear on medical charts. If it's me, I'll be the guy pulling up your sheet, just out of idle curiousity :p

On a side note, your Tren plan is probably less than IFBB Pro Card holders, but it ain't exactly micro-dosing, Babycakes ........
 
BD Cool

BD Cool

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I ran eq at 600/wk for 10 wks and honesty I felt pretty shitty with minimal gains. 400 of deca would've been better imo
Same here. I just don't get much from EQ, even at 1000 mgs per week.
 
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