dr. jim vs kjetil1234

[DF]

I was taught that secondary hypoxic injury caused by the inflammatory response to celluar damage resulting from trauma... sprain/strain injury was the reasoning behind the application of ice. I'm not sure if this has been disproven or not at this point. However, if I see an swollen ankle the size of a basket ball I will apply ice to the area. I did find this article interesting, but hardly touched on the area of ice application. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164347/
I will revisit the links provided in this thread & maybe learn something new.

 

[kjetil1234]

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K would you for once cease all the double talk, mumbo jumbo, voodoo medicine nonsense and answer the questions others pose!

Tell us all what chiropractic therapies provide a better treatment than that which is currently being offered, such as RICE.?

Please tell us how we should better "align" our MS system. By having thrusting moves about the cervical spine, or those back cracking, heard around the world, maneuvers where success is declared when the unsuspecting victim says "I heard that one"?
Again the answer is NO. Your just being a naysayer because for many in the non-traditional medical field, negative publicity is better than NO PUBLICITY!

Oh yea what articles would you like for me to post? That one in 1986!, 1992! or 1994! all more than twenty years old yet enable the unwitting to believe your "suggestions" are applicable to contemporary medicine.

It seems the article in which NSAIDS "decreased healing" as determined by the measurement of inflammatory mediators is your favorite IMO.
Hey but did you even read the abstract? How about the "methods section"? I've no doubt the answer is no because this was a CELL CULTURE study where the cells were bathed in the NSAID at a concentration refused by even rats and fed all the other essential nutrients by micro-drip.

So let's here your alternatives for RICE K especially ANY evidence (please not from some lame blog of your choosing) on therapeutic "realignment".

Jim

I've already posted all my views on ice and NSAIDS, and you may speak of it as you'd like. Please try to talk in a less patronizing way, no need to speak to me like I am an idiot for disagreeing with you.

Regarding the alignment, I'm speaking about imbalances. You can watch the videos I posted a few hours ago if you want to know more. Honestly I won't waste my energy on you as long as you keep your arrogant attitude up, Jim. Have a good one.

 

[kjetil1234]

If you're job has you utilizing corrective exercises to treat problems that athletes run into than perhaps you should make a thread about that. That would be a beneficial thread and possibly help many on here.

Sure. What topic would you like?

 

[IronCore]

------K would you for once cease all the double talk, mumbo jumbo, voodoo medicine nonsense and answer the questions others pose!Tell us all what chiropractic therapies provide a better treatment than that which is currently being offered, such as RICE.? Please tell us how we should better "align" our MS system. By having thrusting moves about the cervical spine, or those back cracking, heard around the world, maneuvers where success is declared when the unsuspecting victim says "I heard that one"? Again the answer is NO. Your just being a naysayer because for many in the non-traditional medical field, negative publicity is better than NO PUBLICITY!Oh yea what articles would you like for me to post? That one in 1986!, 1992! or 1994! all more than twenty years old yet enable the unwitting to believe your "suggestions" are applicable to contemporary medicine. It seems the article in which NSAIDS "decreased healing" as determined by the measurement of inflammatory mediators is your favorite IMO. Hey but did you even read the abstract? How about the "methods section"? I've no doubt the answer is no because this was a CELL CULTURE study where the cells were bathed in the NSAID at a concentration refused by even rats and fed all the other essential nutrients by micro-drip. So let's here your alternatives for RICE K especially ANY evidence (please not from some lame blog of your choosing) on therapeutic "realignment". Jim

I think Jimmy just cawk slapped K in the face with his E-Dick.

 

[hoodlum]

This debate reminds me of all of the debates concerning vaccines. The data is just immense in defense of vaccines, yet people cling to one or two smaller studies that showed otherwise.

When the numbers start to change, the industry will follow, trust me. That is how the medical field works. Standards are based on research, but it uses the ones backed by the volume of peer reviewed studies making the case, in most situations. Until that changes, you aren't going to change the minds of 99% of the top physicians in the world.

Oh god, when reality is said straight its truth to my ears

 

[ItalianMuscle]

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That's incredibly presumptuous of you LK. Why do you believe people are not interested in debating what is or not relevant in the literature regarding the use of ICE or NSAIDS. Your projection tells the real story.

Where is YOUR POST and MY REPLY where you mandate K and I flex our "scientific DICKS in our own thread"?

BS, while I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night.

Just curious, when do you have time to workout? Being in the hospital all day, and arguing, and slapping your e-dick at everyone online all night. One has to wonder..

Speak for yourself. There are many of us who prefer and appreciate Jim's evidence based posts over those of the "bros" that like to play internet doctor but wouldn't know the difference between a peer-reviewed journal and some horseshit opinion piece by a meathead. While I fully understand that not everyone has the aptitude or education to understand journal articles and the statistics, I find it unfortunate that Mugzy's choice in moderators (some) aren't more accommodating towards it.

I also find it unfortunate that while you profess to be against what you call "pissing matches" - a debate of ideas everywhere else - you still manage to take your potshots about "copy and pasting" at a highly educated member that is giving his valuable time to the members of this forum on a pro bono basis.

Dr Jim is right about one thing. TID is at risk of becoming a sterile environment because the forced civility and moderators discouraging vigorous debate over advice in threads where advice is being given to OP's is stifling almost all creative and innovative thought on this forum. If that's the kind of forum you want, fine. But you better be prepared to have a forum with the same old members re-posting and rehashing the same old "cut and paste" opinions pieces and poorly researched articles that are available on every other run-of-the-mill strength training forum on the net because boring forums don't attract many new members. One would think TID would want more than that.

Regards

CBS

We dont even know for certain that dr jim is a doctor. So why should we believe anything he says? Dr Phil isnt a real doctor, but plays one on tv.. Just saying..

 

[dr jim]

I've already posted all my views on ice and NSAIDS, and you may speak of it as you'd like. Please try to talk in a less patronizing way, no need to speak to me like I am an idiot for disagreeing with you.

Regarding the alignment, I'm speaking about imbalances. You can watch the videos I posted a few hours ago if you want to know more. Honestly I won't waste my energy on you as long as you keep your arrogant attitude up, Jim. Have a good one.

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The videos are nothing objective and are based on one persons subjective assessment, yours, of mal-alignment. The adjustments are no different a subjective analysis of re-alignment. I've seen this all before promising cures based on mere suggestion is enough for some to believe it's effective, but so is placebo.

So unless you have some OR how about just ONE, evidence based article to support these hocus pocus therapies, your preying on the medical misfortunes of your "clients". But we both KNOW the answer to that question is NO!

 

[dr jim]

Just curious, when do you have time to workout? Being in the hospital all day, and arguing, and slapping your e-dick at everyone online all night. One has to wonder..



We dont even know for certain that dr jim is a doctor. So why should we believe anything he says? Dr Phil isnt a real doctor, but plays one on tv.. Just saying..

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Well well well, just look at the trash that just landed on TIDs doorstep.
Just saying, LMAO

 

[ItalianMuscle]

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Well well well, just look at the trash that just landed on TIDs doorstep.
Just saying, LMAO

Is that your own thought, or did you have to google that lame insult?

 

[kjetil1234]

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The videos are nothing objective and are based on one persons subjective assessment, yours, of mal-alignment. The adjustments are no different a subjective analysis of re-alignment. I've seen this all before promising cures based on mere suggestion is enough for some to believe it's effective, but so is placebo.

So unless you have some OR how about just ONE, evidence based article to support these hocus pocus therapies, your preying on the medical misfortunes of your "clients". But we both KNOW the answer to that question is NO!

Preying, I think not. Got great results on myself and my clients. You're an asshole, btw.

Here is some research regarding hip MS imbalances causing problems:

Sahrmann, S. (2002). Diagnosis and treatment of movement impairment syndromes. (pp. 144-146). St. Louis, Missouri: Mosby, Inc.

Selkowitz, D., Beneck, G., & Powers, C. (2013). Which exercises target the gluteal muscles while minimizing activation of the tensor fascia lata? electromyographic assessment using fine-wire electrodes. Journal of Orthopaedic and Sports Physical Therapy, 43(2), 54-65.

Gulick, D. (2009). Ortho notes. (2nd ed., p. 189). Philadelphia, PA: F.A. Davis Company.

Edit:
Here's some more references

Giovanni, M., DeSantis, E., Campi, F., Paladini, P., & Porcellini, G. (2010). Infraspinatus scapular retraction test: a reliable and practical method to assess infraspinatus strength in overhead athletes with scapular dyskinesis. Journal of Orthopedic Traumatology; 11:105-110.

Lee, D. & Lee, L.J. (2013). Treating the Whole Person with the Integrated Systems Model. Course Notes; Vancouver, Canada.

Lunden, J.B., Braman, J.P., LaParade, R.F., & Ludewig, P.M. (2010). Shoulder Kinematics during the push up plus exercise. Journal of Shoulder and Elbow Surgery; 19(2): 216-223.

Osar, E. (2012). Corrective Exercise Solutions to Common Hip and Shoulder Dysfunction. Lotus Publishing; Chinchester, UK.

Osar, E. (2013). Upper Extremity Function. Module III Integrative Movement Specialist Certification Course Notes; Chicago, IL.

Sahrmann, S. (2001). Diagnosis and Treatment of Movement Impairment Syndromes. Mosby; St. Louis, MO.

 

[Jenner]

does this thread need to be closed?

 

[kjetil1234]

Just curious, when do you have time to workout? Being in the hospital all day, and arguing, and slapping your e-dick at everyone online all night. One has to wonder..



We dont even know for certain that dr jim is a doctor. So why should we believe anything he says? Dr Phil isnt a real doctor, but plays one on tv.. Just saying..

Pretty sure he's a doctor. Maybe lost his license to practice, and is now in the coach all day with his laptop.