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deca good for joints or just a myth?

BrotherIron

BrotherIron

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I don't have any hard data to back this up, but Deca does help my joints significantly. I notice a difference running it at only 120mg/wk (I do this as part of my TRT).

The only times I've been injured (other than when I was Oly lifting) was when I ran Winny. I absolutely hate winny.
 

SHINE

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Increases in collagen synthesis and other bone matrix markers has been seen in the regeneration of bone in the presence of nandrolones. Increases in fibroblast collagen production has also been associated with nandrolones. Nandrolones have also been associated with reduction of inflammatory cytokines seen in aging. Much of the internet lore or conjecture relating nandrolones with joint support has probably been extrapolated from the literature of positive effects of nandrolones on bone density and antiinflammatory activity. There is no data in the literature relating the extreme dose patterns used by BBers and other weight training enthusiasts to positive effects in joint tissues. i would be most inclined to believe that the hormone signaling pathways are so skewed under extreme dosage patterns that normal joint metabolism would be compromised especially after long term use.

Aerssens, J., R. Van Audekercke, et al. (1993). "Mechanical properties, bone mineral content, and bone composition (collagen, osteocalcin, IGF-I) of the rat femur: influence of ovariectomy and nandrolone decanoate (anabolic steroid) treatment." Calcif Tissue Int 53(4): 269-277.

Cen, Y., N. Liu, et al. (2004). "[Effects of nandrolone phenylpropionate on fibroblasts after injury in rats]." Sichuan Da Xue Xue Bao Yi Xue Ban 35(4): 508-511.

Thompson, R. W., J. M. McClung, et al. (2006). "Modulation of overload-induced inflammation by aging and anabolic steroid administration." Exp Gerontol 41(11): 1136-1148.


This is right on target on several lines of how deca sooths joints and quells inflamation, Pregnenolone is another strong anti-inflammatory hormone as well. Hey another resason to use your hcg!!

anyway it's joint soothing properties that most notice are do to Effects of nandrolone on Immune response : Sex steroids promote very different effects on the immune response ( Centrella et al11) , some stronger than others quell inflamation well! and yet some like Winstrol make the problems worse!!

also nandrolones effects on the glucocorticoid receptor somewhat, although nandrolone is one of the weaker competitors, also having more of an anti-inflammatory response than would be the case with most androgens.


And
ever notice how many bitch about how letro makes there joints hurt ? an anti-estrogen that drives estro to low as well as reduces the PR as well!!!
 
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pux888

pux888

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Oct 1, 2010
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Have to say Shine, I applaud you for preaching the importance of HCG lately!
 
S

schultz1

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From my understanding it creates a build up of synovial fluid in the joints and this is what is actually aiding the joint.
 
Glycomann

Glycomann

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From my understanding it creates a build up of synovial fluid in the joints and this is what is actually aiding the joint.
CAn you post an article that show this?
 
Glycomann

Glycomann

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This is right on target on several lines of how deca sooths joints and quells inflamation, Pregnenolone is another strong anti-inflammatory hormone as well. Hey another resason to use your hcg!!

anyway it's joint soothing properties that most notice are do to Effects of nandrolone on Immune response : Sex steroids promote very different effects on the immune response ( Centrella et al11) , some stronger than others quell inflamation well! and yet some like Winstrol make the problems worse!!

also nandrolones effects on the glucocorticoid receptor somewhat, although nandrolone is one of the weaker competitors, also having more of an anti-inflammatory response than would be the case with most androgens.


And
ever notice how many bitch about how letro makes there joints hurt ? an anti-estrogen that drives estro to low as well as reduces the PR as well!!!

Centrella et al11 is a really interesting article. Thanks for the reference.
 
NutNut

NutNut

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Shine which Centrella study do you mean? I hate in text refs without a ref table especially when the researcher is a super active one. BTW if you were meaning a study from 2011 lead by Centrella it should be written (Centrella et al., 2011)

Not trying to be a dick it actually has me unsure of the ref being cited because of the amount of work that researcher has done in that area.
 
D

deadweight

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Sep 20, 2010
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Yes, thats true. If you are a post menopausal woman or anemic. You can get 100mg a month if ur lucky. Deca is worthless at less than 500mg a week.

This conversation got way off topic. Different gear reacts different with different people. If you want your joints to feel better, use 100-200mgs a week, don't expect gains. If you want gains from deca use 600mgs a week for results, but use enough test so ur dick doesn't take a nose dive.


Well ..at this time i firmly beleive whatever u run with winstrol u are going to have joint problems...Im runing deca at 1,200mgs ew and only 25 mgs ed with the winstrol and my joints are screaming ...But i will admitt myself runing deca without winny it does have my joints...I just wantted to have reports confrimed that deca does help joints ...U all have been helpfull...dw
 

SHINE

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Shine which Centrella study do you mean? I hate in text refs without a ref table especially when the researcher is a super active one. BTW if you were meaning a study from 2011 lead by Centrella it should be written (Centrella et al., 2011)

Not trying to be a dick it actually has me unsure of the ref being cited because of the amount of work that researcher has done in that area.

Sorry bout that Sir NutNut, was referenced in a few studies done in 2011, original is Centrella M, McCarthy TL, Chang WZ, Labaree DC, Hochberg RB. Estren (4-estren-3alpha,17beta-diol) is a prohormone that regulates both androgenic and estrogenic transcriptional effects through the androgen receptor. Mol Endocrinol. 2004 May;18(5):1120-30. Epub 2004 Feb 5.
(Thanks to oswaldosalcedo for the original referece.)
this study , It shows that the prohormone estren , a metabolite of nandrolone (which converts to nandrolone via 3aHSD, alpha version of Nor-diol) can activate estrogenic transcripts via the AR. It seems plausible imo then, that nandrolone probably has similar activity, which perfectly explains its estrogenic nature.


Need the full abstract lmk brotha.
 
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SHINE

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Well ..at this time i firmly beleive whatever u run with winstrol u are going to have joint problems...Im runing deca at 1,200mgs ew and only 25 mgs ed with the winstrol and my joints are screaming ...But i will admitt myself runing deca without winny it does have my joints...I just wantted to have reports confrimed that deca does help joints ...U all have been helpfull...dw

I know exactly what you mean, been a couple years back but was using Deca and decided to throw some W in there for the hell of it.
Two weeks later and bench-presses were impossible the shoulders were so damn sore.
 
NutNut

NutNut

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Jul 25, 2011
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Sorry bout that Sir NutNut, was referenced in a few studies done in 2011, original is Centrella M, McCarthy TL, Chang WZ, Labaree DC, Hochberg RB. Estren (4-estren-3alpha,17beta-diol) is a prohormone that regulates both androgenic and estrogenic transcriptional effects through the androgen receptor. Mol Endocrinol. 2004 May;18(5):1120-30. Epub 2004 Feb 5.
(Thanks to oswaldosalcedo for the original referece.)
this study , It shows that the prohormone estren , a metabolite of nandrolone (which converts to nandrolone via 3aHSD, alpha version of Nor-diol) can activate estrogenic transcripts via the AR. It seems plausible imo then, that nandrolone probably has similar activity, which perfectly explains its estrogenic nature.


Need the full abstract lmk brotha.

Gonna see if I can find the entire study, abstracts don't tell me much, i don't actually doubt the outcome just seems like an interesting study to read. Thanks for the full ref.

Edit: not a study but an article here's the full thing for those interested: http://mend.endojournals.org/content/18/5/1120.long havn't read it yet but have it bookmarked.
 
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SHINE

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CAn you post an article that show this?

I posted an article somewhere here indicating Nandrolone very well may increase synovial fluid as well, to what degree though I have no idea.
see If I can find that one.

Think I posted it here! lol
 
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