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tommyguns2

tommyguns2

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Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
5,850
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One of the most compelling arguments I've heard about BTC is that the algorithm limits the total amount to 21 million, or something like that. That is an important feature, as it distinguishes itself from the various central banks like the US Fed or the EP Central Bank that simply prints money and puts an IOU on its balance sheet.

In one respect it does allow the central bank to regulate its value by controlling the money supply, and this has value when the currency comes under attack. But it doesn't fix the fox guarding the hen house problem. In my humble opinion, the US Fed has succumbed to political pressure over the past 18 months, and that's why they didn't raise rates at the proper time. Of course, it's always easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but that is my view on the latest sh*t show.

BTC and ETH have extraordinary volatility because at this time there is no central way of regulating its value. I suppose that's both a feature and a negative.

I'm curious what the recent negative move on BTC has had on El Salvador? I haven't read anything, but they are an interesting case study.
 
ItalianMuscle

ItalianMuscle

Drama Queen senior Vip
Sep 1, 2010
2,538
924
It is BTC and ETH. Over 20btc and rest eth.

I know. My own fault. I was getting paid about the equiv of 50k in interest/ year paid in BTC, so that annual interest would actually be greater if btc goes up etc.

Was just greedy and felt that the company w/ 11 bil in assets was being managed properly, given they had no issues with the 50% drop in one day a year and a half ago...etc.

It is looking more and more like this is a coordinated attack on celsius. But CEL deserves some blame. Locking up 400 mil in locked ETH makes you very ill-liquid to start. Good news is they are fortifying their positions and margins. I am hopeful that this may have a positive end.

But it might not, and I will end up with nothing. If that happens, it is my own fault. The current crypto market is something I would actually be totally OK with and looking for buying opportunities soon.

But I never planned on losing control of my assets. Again 100% my fault and not a flaw in crypto. Just a fault in my greed level.

I don't trust those types of places/networks anymore. I thought about it again, but I just don't feel like losing money. Too many times, scams happens, or someone hacks the system, and then you're pretty much fucked. Man, I hope this works out for you. I froze all my BTC/ETH so to speak, and moved it to TUSD, 1:1

I have already been fucked before. You can take it how you wish, but I had around 20btc when btc was under $100ea. You had to goto dark web to get them. Long story short, I visited a place to invest/store your BTC. Wish I could remember the name of the site and the email service I was using. Well the site was hacked, and they(Russians) targeted only people that were using a certain email provider. And guess whose email provider they hacked? The one myself and I think the owner said 6-7 others were using. They stole all our btc. The owner apologized and said there was nothing he could do to refund us. After that hacked happened, they installed security measures, like 2 factor authorization, google authenticator, etc. Little too late if you ask me. Should have known better, but who would have thought BTC would have soared to what it did over the past few years. Not me..

Anyways, I just had a gut feeling BTC was going to drop, and keep dropping. It has been a roller coaster for sure. Now I've been reading, that some are expecting btc to drop below $10K by the end of the year. I think our economy has played a major part in this. Not to mention the war in Ukraine.
My plan was if BTC got to below $10K, I am considering buying all my BTC/ETH back, and hope for the best.

Again, wish you the best of luck. I hope you don't lose everything..
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,955
1,609
@ItalianMuscle thanks man. Is what it is. My plan for crypto was always that I was fearless if it went to 0. BUT, I never planned on losing access to it.

That 100% is my own fault. If my coins were sitting on one of my hardware wallets, I would not even be sweating the market. My crypto plan, was/is a 5-10 year plan.

I dont need it to live and was hoping one day the risks paid off. Remains to be seen what will become, but several states are involved. but some things are looking promising.

The stupid thing was I was getting greedy over a 3% return. But thinking ....hey they are holding 11 bil in assets....like they would ever be under-capitalized.

Interesting thing is to watch the CEL token. Looks like some community supporters are fighting back against what they see as a coordinated attack on Celsius. A short squeeze is in the breweing! CEL Was down at .20 now .87. Would have been a nice 4x if someone had the balls. There is talk CEL could go very high now with CEL supporters trying to flush out the shorts.

If btc does dip more sig, I will surly be buying more.
 
Swiper

Swiper

VIP Member
Jan 8, 2011
1,393
1,292
Selective zooming. Weird timeframe to pick. Almost like cherry picking. Whey 4 1/2 years? Why not just do a comparison over 1,3,5, and 10. Even with BTC down significantly, showing the numbers in a standard fashion would not support his argument. But that is just it.. That is what he does. But you ought to realize his presentation is far from being an 'honest' one.

he picked that time frame because that’s when bitcoin was at $20k just like it is right now.

Perhaps if you weren’t so greedy and opened your eyes and listen to some bitcoin critics you would’ve known about Celsius. Schiff called this over eight months ago. you just got scammed out of $500k. good luck with getting your money back.
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,955
1,609
@Swiper I am not saying I was 'scammed' out of anything. Best educated guesses right now is this is a result of coordinated attack on Celsius as a result of LUNA collapse which it appears Celsius really started by pulling it's funds out. (to protect its customers). Many other BIG (multi billion whale wallets lost billions in the process).

You can see that CEL is moving and re capitalizing by on-chain data. So it looks as if they are working in good faith of it's investors. (eg, they are not on a plane to Tahiti) The money is still there. The 'bad' part is they are holding almost 1/2 a billion in staked eth which cant be unlocked.

So I am not seeing 'scam' nor sham. But the fact remains it will be treated like unsecured debt in event of bankruptcy.

So to be clear, I am as "pro" crypto as ever. Just made a 'bad' call with where to store my money. But dont forget, if you are holding more than 250k cash in a bank, only the first 250 is federally insured. If there is a 'run' on a bank you can lose that also.

Your views of this space are greatly over-simplified.

To laugh at how stupid your justification of the 4 1/2 year time frame, lets just use 5 years and see how that looks. (the reason he picked 4 1/2 is it was the TOP of the 2017 market. But lets say 5 years.

5 year comparison
BTC was 1900. Today it is 20k So that is 10x over 5 years Or 10,000%
Gold was 1250 Today it is 1850. So that is 48% increase over 5 years

His statement about how much 'better' gold is does not look to good in that light.
So say BTC 'crashes' to 10k. That is still 5000% increas or 100x of what gold has done.


Just please try to form a thought of your own instead of just parroting what gold bugs say.
 
Swiper

Swiper

VIP Member
Jan 8, 2011
1,393
1,292
@Swiper I am not saying I was 'scammed' out of anything. Best educated guesses right now is this is a result of coordinated attack on Celsius as a result of LUNA collapse which it appears Celsius really started by pulling it's funds out. (to protect its customers). Many other BIG (multi billion whale wallets lost billions in the process).

You can see that CEL is moving and re capitalizing by on-chain data. So it looks as if they are working in good faith of it's investors. (eg, they are not on a plane to Tahiti) The money is still there. The 'bad' part is they are holding almost 1/2 a billion in staked eth which cant be unlocked.

So I am not seeing 'scam' nor sham. But the fact remains it will be treated like unsecured debt in event of bankruptcy.

So to be clear, I am as "pro" crypto as ever. Just made a 'bad' call with where to store my money. But dont forget, if you are holding more than 250k cash in a bank, only the first 250 is federally insured. If there is a 'run' on a bank you can lose that also.

Your views of this space are greatly over-simplified.

To laugh at how stupid your justification of the 4 1/2 year time frame, lets just use 5 years and see how that looks. (the reason he picked 4 1/2 is it was the TOP of the 2017 market. But lets say 5 years.

5 year comparison
BTC was 1900. Today it is 20k So that is 10x over 5 years Or 10,000%
Gold was 1250 Today it is 1850. So that is 48% increase over 5 years

His statement about how much 'better' gold is does not look to good in that light.
So say BTC 'crashes' to 10k. That is still 5000% increas or 100x of what gold has done.


Just please try to form a thought of your own instead of just parroting what gold bugs say.

yes i get a lot of my information from Peter Schiff because I believe in his philosophy and investing strategies. I read and listen to what he says and form my own opinions. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

I know you get a lot of your information from Michael Saylor which is fine if you want to believe his nonsense.



so as of now you have no access to any of your $500k in bitcoins and most likely never will while my gold bars are sitting in my safe nice and secure. who’s stupid?
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,955
1,609
yes i get a lot of my information from Peter Schiff because I believe in his philosophy and investing strategies. I read and listen to what he says and form my own opinions. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

I know you get a lot of your information from Michael Saylor which is fine if you want to believe his nonsense.



so as of now you have no access to any of your $500k in bitcoins and most likely never will while my gold bars are sitting in my safe nice and secure. who’s stupid?
I get very in the little way of information from Michael Saylor. I do watch what he has to say from time to time, but I make my choices based upon my own research. I have been into crypto long enough that I dont need to just follow anyone.

So who is 'stupid'. Well this is no different than if you lent your gold to someone for a return. So I would say I am guilty of taking too much risk. But throughout my life I have made many decisions based on risk reward basis.

Crypto was/is less than 10% of assets. It was 'play money' and I treated it as high risk. (meaning I did not need it to live and if it all went away, it would not 'harm' me'.) So that continues to remain the case. Am I 'dumb' for risking that amount of assets? Sure. But it remains to be seen what the outcome will be. There is a good chance it might get unlocked incrementally which I would be fine with waiting a year or even more to get it back.

It may have been the best thing ever since I had become a little too complacent. I need take advantage of all the opportunities out there. Good will come out of this either way. I have a few things in the works. I am meeting a buddy for lunch tomorrow. Going to have some good conversations. He is into much more speculative trading. Something I have never done.

Life is good man. No risk, no reward.

To put this out there clearly as I have stated. Losing all of the crypto is 100% my fault. It is NOT a problem of BTC or ETH. It is a problem of my greed. I have two hardware wallets and I could have stored my own coins. But I did what seemed like a 'good thing' at the time and it has turned out to not be so good.
 
C

CIROQ

VIP Member
Sep 13, 2012
397
502
@Swiper I am not saying I was 'scammed' out of anything. Best educated guesses right now is this is a result of coordinated attack on Celsius as a result of LUNA collapse which it appears Celsius really started by pulling it's funds out. (to protect its customers). Many other BIG (multi billion whale wallets lost billions in the process).

You can see that CEL is moving and re capitalizing by on-chain data. So it looks as if they are working in good faith of it's investors. (eg, they are not on a plane to Tahiti) The money is still there. The 'bad' part is they are holding almost 1/2 a billion in staked eth which cant be unlocked.

So I am not seeing 'scam' nor sham. But the fact remains it will be treated like unsecured debt in event of bankruptcy.

So to be clear, I am as "pro" crypto as ever. Just made a 'bad' call with where to store my money. But dont forget, if you are holding more than 250k cash in a bank, only the first 250 is federally insured. If there is a 'run' on a bank you can lose that also.

Your views of this space are greatly over-simplified.

To laugh at how stupid your justification of the 4 1/2 year time frame, lets just use 5 years and see how that looks. (the reason he picked 4 1/2 is it was the TOP of the 2017 market. But lets say 5 years.

5 year comparison
BTC was 1900. Today it is 20k So that is 10x over 5 years Or 10,000%
Gold was 1250 Today it is 1850. So that is 48% increase over 5 years

His statement about how much 'better' gold is does not look to good in that light.
So say BTC 'crashes' to 10k. That is still 5000% increas or 100x of what gold has done.


Just please try to form a thought of your own instead of just parroting what gold bugs say.

..............
 
Stickler

Stickler

VIP Member
Oct 28, 2010
279
207
It is BTC and ETH. Over 20btc and rest eth.

I know. My own fault. I was getting paid about the equiv of 50k in interest/ year paid in BTC, so that annual interest would actually be greater if btc goes up etc.

Was just greedy and felt that the company w/ 11 bil in assets was being managed properly, given they had no issues with the 50% drop in one day a year and a half ago...etc.

It is looking more and more like this is a coordinated attack on celsius. But CEL deserves some blame. Locking up 400 mil in locked ETH makes you very ill-liquid to start. Good news is they are fortifying their positions and margins. I am hopeful that this may have a positive end.

But it might not, and I will end up with nothing. If that happens, it is my own fault. The current crypto market is something I would actually be totally OK with and looking for buying opportunities soon.

But I never planned on losing control of my assets. Again 100% my fault and not a flaw in crypto. Just a fault in my greed level.
Do you think that you would use the platform once they allow deposits/withdrawals/trades again? Of course the benefit to using these CEX's is they offer staking/farming or whatever to gain high interest yields, but as we can see it comes with risk. Making $50k in INTEREST is fucking awesome! Did you compound your yields and continue to let it ride, or did you pull yield profits? Will you move your assets to another CEX, to a DEX (which is also showing current flaws in Solend/Solana), or go to a cold/hardware wallet? You have the safety of holding your assets, but like a mattress you don't make any interest you're just riding the wave of the current market price.
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,955
1,609
..............
Very interesting. I agree. Wait no... I disagree. Well fuk.... I am not sure ;)

Do you think that you would use the platform once they allow deposits/withdrawals/trades again? Of course the benefit to using these CEX's is they offer staking/farming or whatever to gain high interest yields, but as we can see it comes with risk. Making $50k in INTEREST is fucking awesome! Did you compound your yields and continue to let it ride, or did you pull yield profits? Will you move your assets to another CEX, to a DEX (which is also showing current flaws in Solend/Solana), or go to a cold/hardware wallet? You have the safety of holding your assets, but like a mattress you don't make any interest you're just riding the wave of the current market price.
I am not making any judgements yet. One part you are missing is the REAL advantage of Celsius was allowing one to access their assets in crypto WITHOUT triggering a taxable event. Crypto collateralized lending.

So if you have 'made' a lot of money in crypto, you will also have quite the tax bill to go along with those gains. However you can post on outfits like Celsius, BlockFi, Nexo and they will lend you cash using your crypto as collateral. You pay them interest based on loan terms. As little as 1% interest, to as high as 8.75% based on LTV.

I utilized this quite a bit. Accessing cash for shorter term loans at a 1% interest. I used a handful crypto loans to cover short term cash needs. Rather than selling stock to access cash, I just got a crypto loan. There is NO taxable event on a loan. So if my cost basis was 2000 on a BTC and value was 50k, I was able to lever the 50k at full value, access cash (which took 36 hours to hit my account) and then I just paid them back as the cash came in. Carrying it for 1%. VERY easy to use and allowed to always have 100's in cash available WITHOUT having to sit on cash AND get paid for storing it there at the same time.

Celsius was not/is not a ponzi. Despite the Schiff interview where he askes how Celsius makes money....well many platforms need to borrow cash or crypto in the short term. People pay for that ever day. All of CEL loans were OVER collaterlaized. Meaning they were holding more than they loaned in cash and in the event of a crash, it has clearly defined liquidation and margin calls. Almost impossible for CEL to lose money.

What happened to CEL is ANY bank will fail if everyone asks for their deposits back all at the same time. The money (from what we can see on-chain) is still there. Unfortunately the decision to stake and lock a sig amt in ETH combined with what might be a concerted effort to short the CEL token causes frenzy.

Interesting....is it MIGHT be backfiring on the attackers who are all shorting CEL. There is a nice short squeeze going. They had beat CEL down to .20. It is now rallied 6x and at 1.20 in the past 3 days. People are fighting back against the ones trying to sink it. I did not get involved in it, but watching from the sidelines gives me hope that this can be flipped around and cause some pain to those who are trying to sink CEL as best they can. You can see on the 6th where the run on them started dropping the value 66% in a few days. Now it is 600% rallied IN SPITE of the people trying to sink it.

KemVeD9.jpg
 
Stickler

Stickler

VIP Member
Oct 28, 2010
279
207
Very interesting. I agree. Wait no... I disagree. Well fuk.... I am not sure ;)


I am not making any judgements yet. One part you are missing is the REAL advantage of Celsius was allowing one to access their assets in crypto WITHOUT triggering a taxable event. Crypto collateralized lending.

So if you have 'made' a lot of money in crypto, you will also have quite the tax bill to go along with those gains. However you can post on outfits like Celsius, BlockFi, Nexo and they will lend you cash using your crypto as collateral. You pay them interest based on loan terms. As little as 1% interest, to as high as 8.75% based on LTV.

I utilized this quite a bit. Accessing cash for shorter term loans at a 1% interest. I used a handful crypto loans to cover short term cash needs. Rather than selling stock to access cash, I just got a crypto loan. There is NO taxable event on a loan. So if my cost basis was 2000 on a BTC and value was 50k, I was able to lever the 50k at full value, access cash (which took 36 hours to hit my account) and then I just paid them back as the cash came in. Carrying it for 1%. VERY easy to use and allowed to always have 100's in cash available WITHOUT having to sit on cash AND get paid for storing it there at the same time.

Celsius was not/is not a ponzi. Despite the Schiff interview where he askes how Celsius makes money....well many platforms need to borrow cash or crypto in the short term. People pay for that ever day. All of CEL loans were OVER collaterlaized. Meaning they were holding more than they loaned in cash and in the event of a crash, it has clearly defined liquidation and margin calls. Almost impossible for CEL to lose money.

What happened to CEL is ANY bank will fail if everyone asks for their deposits back all at the same time. The money (from what we can see on-chain) is still there. Unfortunately the decision to stake and lock a sig amt in ETH combined with what might be a concerted effort to short the CEL token causes frenzy.

Interesting....is it MIGHT be backfiring on the attackers who are all shorting CEL. There is a nice short squeeze going. They had beat CEL down to .20. It is now rallied 6x and at 1.20 in the past 3 days. People are fighting back against the ones trying to sink it. I did not get involved in it, but watching from the sidelines gives me hope that this can be flipped around and cause some pain to those who are trying to sink CEL as best they can. You can see on the 6th where the run on them started dropping the value 66% in a few days. Now it is 600% rallied IN SPITE of the people trying to sink it.

KemVeD9.jpg
Does Celsius allow the borrowing or leveraging like a "credit line" so that retail investors/accounts can use it in the US or is it a product that requires being either licensed or outside the USA in order to use it w/o a VPN? (I wouldn't use a VPN for trading, you get caught they take your funds. At least that's what I've seen on 1 occasion)
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,955
1,609
Does Celsius allow the borrowing or leveraging like a "credit line" so that retail investors/accounts can use it in the US or is it a product that requires being either licensed or outside the USA in order to use it w/o a VPN? (I wouldn't use a VPN for trading, you get caught they take your funds. At least that's what I've seen on 1 occasion)

Yes, their retail side allowed for retail customers to borrow as little as 1000. Company has physical offices in US and has(had) the BEST customer support. I even have a personal account manager who is actually local to me. He was always a phone call away (still is) if I needed anything.

BlockFi is another platform that does the same thing. US based. I just always felt that CEL was much better at the customer service end.

Celsius and BlockFi both switched their interest accounts to requiring US holders to be 'accredited investor' approved. Trying to be proactive and comply with US oversight. Basically show a net worth in excess of certain amount or annual income. It is common across any investment platform in the US for 'higher risk' investments. They restrict their access to people unless they can show their 'status'.

It is not a leveraged trading platform. You can buy or sell through them. But their main business was / is crypto lending and interest accounts. Nothing nefarious about them or VPN requirement. Full KYC AML and bank compliant.
 
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