Coming Off

[CFM]

I do not give my advice, only what is, does, has worked best for me. Tapper down anything longer than cyp using just TP. Once the calculated 1/2 life or blood work shows me close I STOP. HTPA without the presence of exogenous hormone can then and only then recover.

At 59 I came off and it took about 5 months to produce 248ng/dl of natty.

Just my opinion........all those ancillary drugs are like Chantix to quit smoking.

my .02

 

[Glycomann]

I do not give my advice, only what is, does, has worked best for me. Tapper down anything longer than cyp using just TP. Once the calculated 1/2 life or blood work shows me close I STOP. HTPA without the presence of exogenous hormone can then and only then recover.

At 59 I came off and it took about 5 months to produce 248ng/dl of natty.

Just my opinion........all those ancillary drugs are like Chantix to quit smoking.

my .02

It took over a year to return to mid-range normal both times I came off for a long time. Later in life after 47 I still came off between cycles. Until i was in my late 50s I would recover into mid 500s by week 12 or 16 with hCG and Clomid after being off PCT drugs for 8-12 weeks. There was always a 2-4 week lull when the PCT drugs came out. I think there wa a recent publication that reported that the PCT drugs just speed up the process overall. That's what I found over the decades. I don't plan on coming off for any extended period at this stage of life. It would probably take well over a year to max out naturally at this point. At this point I'm guessing tht the HPTA rubber band has stretched and rebounded about as much as it can.

 

[beefnewton]

Sooo sleepy. I've been using Test P pretty much whole time. Been about 1.5 weeks since stopping, so should be well on its way out of system. When I resume, I won't be re-adding Anavar but instead do actual cycles if I use it at all. Tired of borderline lipids. I don't plan on adding back any supplements, though, unless there's a proven need via labs. I suspect Vitamin D will be the first one to get reintroduced. But other stuff like fish oil, boron, palm fruit, neo40, cialis, and some others (even creatine)... I am going to try and avoid because I'm tired of paying for them and never really noticing any real benefit. Under normal circumstances, my diet is pretty clean. I even pay the Costco premium on their organic chicken.

 

[Druss]

creatine can cause edema, which might be your issue

 

[beefnewton]

Could be. Lot of things I had been taking. But this was over-the-top edema. Most people would have gone to the ER. My legs and feet were easily 25% larger than normal. I couldn't even sit cross-legged. I didn't realize just how bad it had gotten until it was gone. I've been taking the same brand Creatine for a while, but I have noticed the past few years that something with Creatine in general has changed. Optimum Nutrition used to be Creapure, but then they quietly dropped that label, switching to some generically-made monohydrate, while keeping the same price. It also picked up some kind of "static cling" these past two years. No other way I can describe it. No longer granular. More powdery. Doesn't taste like old creatine mono, either. I noticed the same change with this same brand I've been taking, which is supposed to be Creapure, but I have my suspicions they are trying to bamboozle their customers and did what Optimum did but didn't remove the Creapure mark. This most recent container has same characteristics... static, powdery, no taste.. whereas previous containers were identical to that first tub I bought from GNC back in the 90's. Old creatine mono is almost flavorless to me.. but it does have a very distinctive, mild taste. Could it be something toxic with this new tub? Maybe. I don't think I'm ever gonna know at this point. All I know is I was holding on to a ton of fluid, and that nasty bout of edema didn't seem to resolve until I just dropped everything.

 

[sityslicker1]

I set a calendar reminder for 8/1 for labs. My memory is crap. Been off Anavar, Proviron, and Primo two weeks but Test P and Mast P not even a week. I can fall asleep sitting in a chair already. Good times ahead.

When reading your original post the first things to come to mind were acute kidney insult or heart failure. But if the edema has subsided since getting off gear. Maybe it was the gear and possible something in there (solvent) that was effecting kidney function or causing an inflammatory response which can also cause generalize edema.

What labs did you get.ordered? Chemistry/ metabolic panel? Anything else.

An echocardigram would be highlyb advisable too. Make sure your ejection fraction is within range. If EF is lower then normal could indicate some heart failure which notorious for edema.

 

[sityslicker1]

creatine can cause edema, which might be your isissue

^^^Good point. Especially if he started it about the same time he noticed the edema.

 

[Glycomann]

Could be. Lot of things I had been taking. But this was over-the-top edema. Most people would have gone to the ER. My legs and feet were easily 25% larger than normal. I couldn't even sit cross-legged. I didn't realize just how bad it had gotten until it was gone. I've been taking the same brand Creatine for a while, but I have noticed the past few years that something with Creatine in general has changed. Optimum Nutrition used to be Creapure, but then they quietly dropped that label, switching to some generically-made monohydrate, while keeping the same price. It also picked up some kind of "static cling" these past two years. No other way I can describe it. No longer granular. More powdery. Doesn't taste like old creatine mono, either. I noticed the same change with this same brand I've been taking, which is supposed to be Creapure, but I have my suspicions they are trying to bamboozle their customers and did what Optimum did but didn't remove the Creapure mark. This most recent container has same characteristics... static, powdery, no taste.. whereas previous containers were identical to that first tub I bought from GNC back in the 90's. Old creatine mono is almost flavorless to me.. but it does have a very distinctive, mild taste. Could it be something toxic with this new tub? Maybe. I don't think I'm ever gonna know at this point. All I know is I was holding on to a ton of fluid, and that nasty bout of edema didn't seem to resolve until I just dropped everything.

You know back in the 90s I used creatine and it had really noticable effects. It would pull into the muscle so strongly i would dry heave up food that had almost no liquid. but ,my muscles would be very full. Around 2005-2007 i had been natty for ~8 years and I started using a protein powder with creatine and it was really effective. My wife thought i was back on. Then after ~2012 any brand I got did almost nothing. I just figured it didn't work for me the same anymore. Now I really don't care to mess with is actually. I must be getting old.

On a side note unrelated. I was at the gym the other day and this cute little women about 40 and I were both approaching the stretching mats hung at the wall at the same time. I paused, smiled and waved her ahead. She smiled surprised and did a little hop over and took her mat. It was so cute.. I told her when she sees a gray hair and beard like mine she might expect a little chivalry. She smiled and looked me dead in the eye and said "I don't see it often".

 

[Friggemall]

You know back in the 90s I used creatine and it had really noticable effects. It would pull into the muscle so strongly i would dry heave up food that had almost no liquid. but ,my muscles would be very full. Around 2005-2007 i had been natty for ~8 years and I started using a protein powder with creatine and it was really effective. My wife thought i was back on. Then after ~2012 any brand I got did almost nothing. I just figured it didn't work for me the same anymore. Now I really don't care to mess with is actually. I must be getting old.

On a side note unrelated. I was at the gym the other day and this cute little women about 40 and I were both approaching the stretching mats hung at the wall at the same time. I paused, smiled and waved her ahead. She smiled surprised and did a little hop over and took her mat. It was so cute.. I told her when she sees a gray hair and beard like mine she might expect a little chivalry. She smiled and looked me dead in the eye and said "I don't see it often".

G-mann has a gym crush

 

[beefnewton]

When reading your original post the first things to come to mind were acute kidney insult or heart failure. But if the edema has subsided since getting off gear. Maybe it was the gear and possible something in there (solvent) that was effecting kidney function or causing an inflammatory response which can also cause generalize edema.

What labs did you get.ordered? Chemistry/ metabolic panel? Anything else.

An echocardigram would be highlyb advisable too. Make sure your ejection fraction is within range. If EF is lower then normal could indicate some heart failure which notorious for edema.

I usually get a pretty comprehensive set twice a year... this req is typical (below). I've been Creatine a long time. The only possibility is maybe the brand changed something, and it's a bad batch... but that could be said for anything I was taking. Echo is pretty much not an option, unfortunately. Haven't had health insurance for a very, very long time since I only do contract work. It used to be that one could get self-insured with a reasonable premium. Maybe an echo wouldn't be that much, though. I've gotten MRI's self-pay before, and those were surprisingly cheaper than I thought they'd be. The problem in this case is getting it ordered.

 

[beefnewton]

You know back in the 90s I used creatine and it had really noticable effects. It would pull into the muscle so strongly i would dry heave up food that had almost no liquid. but ,my muscles would be very full. Around 2005-2007 i had been natty for ~8 years and I started using a protein powder with creatine and it was really effective. My wife thought i was back on. Then after ~2012 any brand I got did almost nothing. I just figured it didn't work for me the same anymore. Now I really don't care to mess with is actually. I must be getting old.

On a side note unrelated. I was at the gym the other day and this cute little women about 40 and I were both approaching the stretching mats hung at the wall at the same time. I paused, smiled and waved her ahead. She smiled surprised and did a little hop over and took her mat. It was so cute.. I told her when she sees a gray hair and beard like mine she might expect a little chivalry. She smiled and looked me dead in the eye and said "I don't see it often".

I never have connections like that anymore. Too gray.

 

[Glycomann]

G-mann has a gym crush

That cute little smile and hop is all a disguise for the chaos just beneath the surface brother. I earned those gray hairs.