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Clomid AND Nolvadex - The Reason

ketsugo

ketsugo

MuscleHead
Sep 10, 2011
2,643
491
#14
Great post, again validating to me that i been doibg things right all these years. However, everyone here is intelligent, i could have used this info and all of you during a long verbal battle elswhere, me against the world, i felt like Gulliver in the land of Lilliput. Lol "omg, ketsugo uses noveldex" lmao yup 100 newbies on my ass for saying i use novaldex. I think that was my que to say , enough, like throwin pearls to swine.

Theres alot to be said when certain methods and combos hsve been proven over time, even with the introduction of newer compounds, hence more unproven theories. This protocol formula works, thanks for the posting
 
ketsugo

ketsugo

MuscleHead
Sep 10, 2011
2,643
491
#16
X_X hcg has more benefits than your damn nutz size!:bz
True, notice how there are certain protocols and precautions we have to measure how certain areas of our bodies are responding, yet people are so concrete that they limit themselves by not looking beyond. Yet these very same people also need immediate results and are insatiable
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,242
1,475
#17
HCG is best run during very long or SHIC cycles IMHO.I know many feel it's best used for ANY cycle but I just disagree.I do feel as you get older and your natty test production is decreasing,its better to use during all cycles,but when younger and during normal length and moderately dosed cycles,a standard pct is all that is needed.

Just my opinion based on my experience thru the yrs not only on myself but many others that I have been involved with.Not saying my idea is the only way or best way,just a way that has worked well for me and many others.
HCG also does more than assist in recovery. But that's alright. You and everyone else who thinks its not necessary except on long/harsh cycles can do what you do, and that'll leave more on the market for me.

It's a simple concept to me. If something can make the cycle better from a safety/emotional/cosmetic/recovery standpoint, ummmmmmm, no-brainer.
 
F.I.S.T.

F.I.S.T.

MuscleHead
Sep 24, 2011
1,318
115
#18
HCG also does more than assist in recovery. But that's alright. You and everyone else who thinks its not necessary except on long/harsh cycles can do what you do, and that'll leave more on the market for me.

It's a simple concept to me. If something can make the cycle better from a safety/emotional/cosmetic/recovery standpoint, ummmmmmm, no-brainer.
You're right,HCG does do more than just help you recover but as ive said many times already.I don't see the need.Its NEVER been needed for me for any of the factors you describe nor many I know.What reactions YOU get means nothing to me or others in what they get.You understand bro? I feel ya on how it can help with more than just getting your nuts working again,and for some HCG may be needed to help as it hits some harder than others but many do not.

We basically are on the same page man but you just don't seem to accept that no ONE person reacts the same to cycling and will need different compounds/amounts/stacks/pct to get the same results as another.The "no brainer" as you said will never be the same for everyone.Some can't use tren e while other love it,Some like drol while others get better results from dbol.There is no magic solution for everyone.The "no brainer" on cycling will have to be made from trial and error for you and you alone.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,242
1,475
#19
You're right,HCG does do more than just help you recover but as ive said many times already.I don't see the need.Its NEVER been needed for me for any of the factors you describe nor many I know.What reactions YOU get means nothing to me or others in what they get.You understand bro? I feel ya on how it can help with more than just getting your nuts working again,and for some HCG may be needed to help as it hits some harder than others but many do not.

We basically are on the same page man but you just don't seem to accept that no ONE person reacts the same to cycling and will need different compounds/amounts/stacks/pct to get the same results as another.The "no brainer" as you said will never be the same for everyone.Some can't use tren e while other love it,Some like drol while others get better results from dbol.There is no magic solution for everyone.The "no brainer" on cycling will have to be made from trial and error for you and you alone.

I "don't seem to accept"........? I can't expect you to read all of my posts because you are busy c/p-ing sherdog.com (and not citing them as the source),but my stance with doses, stacks, training, and diet, is pretty much "to each his own". Yet that has nothing to do with the physiological changes that EVERYBODY'S body goes through while using exogenous hormones. Does exogenous testosterone not shut certain people down? Facts are facts, and the fact is that EVERYONE is better off using HCG during a cycle, or TRT, etc, for a variety of reasons.

Its NEVER been needed for me for any of the factors you describe nor many I know.
How do you know this? How in the world can you say that with any certainty or proof? You can't.


What reactions YOU get means nothing to me or others in what they get.You understand bro?
Not your bro. And no, I don't understand how the fact that something that can and will make using (not just cycling, but TRT, blast and cruise, etc) more healthy and effective means nothing to you and others.




Like I already said though, leave the stuff alone. If ignorant people like you want to use AAS ignorantly, then it serves them right and it's better for me that they're not driving the price up and the availability down.
 
ketsugo

ketsugo

MuscleHead
Sep 10, 2011
2,643
491
#20
HCG also does more than assist in recovery. But that's alright. You and everyone else who thinks its not necessary except on long/harsh cycles can do what you do, and that'll leave more on the market for me.

It's a simple concept to me. If something can make the cycle better from a safety/emotional/cosmetic/recovery standpoint, ummmmmmm, no-brainer.
I think I'm following, can u please elaborate . Not harassing just honestly wanting to understand where you are coming from. I agree that all of us do respond differently to different degrees and I think we need pct either way. Despite that some disagree . Am I reading too much into this or are you just basically saying that?
 
F.I.S.T.

F.I.S.T.

MuscleHead
Sep 24, 2011
1,318
115
#21
I "don't seem to accept"........? I can't expect you to read all of my posts because you are busy c/p-ing sherdog.com (and not citing them as the source),but my stance with doses, stacks, training, and diet, is pretty much "to each his own". Yet that has nothing to do with the physiological changes that EVERYBODY'S body goes through while using exogenous hormones. Does exogenous testosterone not shut certain people down? Facts are facts, and the fact is that EVERYONE is better off using HCG during a cycle, or TRT, etc, for a variety of reasons.



How do you know this? How in the world can you say that with any certainty or proof? You can't.




Not your bro. And no, I don't understand how the fact that something that can and will make using (not just cycling, but TRT, blast and cruise, etc) more healthy and effective means nothing to you and others.




Like I already said though, leave the stuff alone. If ignorant people like you want to use AAS ignorantly, then it serves them right and it's better for me that they're not driving the price up and the availability down.
Kid,im not getting into a debate with you on this.Lets see a show of hands in this thread that have already agreed with me.I seem to have read everyone in here agreeing including the mods.So I guess we're all ignorant according to you.Once again,if we don't agree with your very narrow and limited knowledge on cycling then we're all ignorant?

As far as everyone being shut down from cycling,thats completely irrelevant.What is very relevant is how tough it is for you to recover.What you're saying is "hey if I take nolva during a cycle I will prevent gyno" without ever finding out if you need it.Thats exactly what you're saying.Saying HCG is NEEDED for every cycle is ignorant and once again shows your lack of knowledge on the matter.Trying to state such health issues that could happen if you don't take hcg means nothing in practice.What DOES happen to you and you alone is what determines how you will run a cycle,how you will run pct and what you will take during both.Not what some b/s you were told in class or read on an internet board.Keep reading man,its doing you well.I'll keep pounding away at the iron and cycling the correct way that has worked for me and obviously everyone else in this thread.

How can say the things I say? I can say these things from actual facts.Unlike you I have the time in to see first hand what effects cycling has had on me.My dr and blood tests are all the proof I need.The countless others that I have been involved with getting the same results from their dr's and blood tests are the proof I need.FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE not what I read like you.

Oh yeah,and since thread wasn't even started by me its funny how you started a debate with me about it.LMAO
 
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SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,242
1,475
#22
I think I'm following, can u please elaborate . Not harassing just honestly wanting to understand where you are coming from. I agree that all of us do respond differently to different degrees and I think we need pct either way. Despite that some disagree . Am I reading too much into this or are you just basically saying that?
I'm trying to explain that HCG is not just about recovery or ball size. Yes it helps with those things and the recovery aspect is important, but if it were ONLY helpful in recovery and ball size then I might be more inclined to agree that it wasn't necessarily necessary for short, basic cycles (although I would still recommend it, why not recover FASTER). However, as SHINE has said many times, HCG is a neurosteroid that affects your brain as well as your HPTA. Here is a quote by SHINE from his article about pregnenolone, "whole lot of good reasons below for you guys to add your hcg in cycles to keep pregnenolone levels up, ( it's a powerful anti-inflammatory!) & also a strong neruo steroid for the brain that helps to improve moods and more!". So it is an easy, relatively inexpensive way to make cycling healthier, safer, and more effective.

Kid,im not getting into a debate with you on this.Lets see a show of hands in this thread that have already agreed with me.I seem to have read everyone in here agreeing including the mods.So I guess we're all ignorant according to you.Once again,if we don't agree with your very narrow and limited knowledge on cycling then we're all ignorant?

As far as everyone being shut down from cycling,thats completely irrelevant.What is very relevant is how tough it is for you to recover.What you're saying is "hey if I take nolva during a cycle I will prevent gyno" without ever finding out if you need it.Thats exactly what you're saying.Saying HCG is NEEDED for every cycle is ignorant and once again shows your lack of knowledge on the matter.Trying to state such health issues that could happen if you don't take hcg means nothing in practice.What DOES happen to you and you alone is what determines how you will run a cycle,how you will run pct and what you will take during both.Not what some b/s you were told in class or read on an internet board.Keep reading man,its doing you well.I'll keep pounding away at the iron and cycling the correct way that has worked for me and obviously everyone else in this thread.

How can say the things I say? I can say these things from actual facts.Unlike you I have the time in to see first hand what effects cycling has had on me.My dr and blood tests are all the proof I need.The countless others that I have been involved with getting the same results from their dr's and blood tests are the proof I need.FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE not what I read like you.

Oh yeah,and since thread wasn't even started by me its funny how you started a debate with me about it.LMAO

Here we go with the "kid" stuff again......lol. Please call out SHINE and ask him if he agrees with you. He agreed that HCG becomes more important for recovery when you are older, but that is all he agreed to. Half of what I know about HCG I learned either from him or because he spurred me to want to read more about it, so think twice before you ask for a show of hands. Other than that, I think GetSome is the only guy who agreed with your stance that HCG is not smart to take during every cycle, and I know that makes you feel special that a SuperMod agreed with you. But he is also just a human being who has been wrong before and will be wrong again, like all of us, so yes, I disagree with both of you.

How is the physiological FACT that everyone will have the same reaction to exogenous hormones IN TERMS OF SHUTDOWN OF THE HPTA AND NEGATIVE FEEDBACK LOOPS "completely irrelevant"? LMAO, you are impossible to debate with because you fail to even comprehend what we are debating. It is completely relevant, and in fact, the very reason why HCG is necessary for anyone who is dabbling in AAS to any degree. If you can't see that, you are more ignorant than I originally thought, and that's saying something. The nolva analogy actually backs up my stance, although I know I'll have to explain that to you. Check it out. Taking nolva during cycle to keep estrogen levels in a physiologically normal/safe range (not the best thing to take obviously but I'm using your analogy) is smart not because you may be preventing gyno without even knowing it, but because you are keeping estrogen at a safe level. Gyno is not the only side effect from having high estrogen levels, and because the body wants to balance its hormones by raising estrogen levels when testosterone levels are high, it is wise from a SAFETY/HEALTH standpoint to keep estrogen levels normal.

I won't completely pick apart your entire poorly formulated rant, so I'll leave you with a few things.

Quit knocking people who know more than you because they learned it in school or by INTELLIGENTLY GLEANING INFORMATION FROM ONLINE. Accept that the internet is one of the best sources of knowledge in the world.

Quit assuming that you have learned more about INTELLIGENTLY USING AAS just because you have been using for a long time. People fucking smoked for decades thinking it wasn't killing them until the surgeon general told them it was linked to cancer. Doing something doesn't mean you know the science behind it or the ways to improve it.

Lastly, you call me kid and constantly point to the fact that I'm a relative newbie to this lifestyle (which is true),yet you've still never mentioned where all of your vast experience and knowledge has taken your body. If I met two guys in the gym who were giving me advice, and one was old, small, and weak, and was telling me that he knows so much because he's been doing it for 25 years, and the other guy is young, big, and strong, and was telling me that he knows what he knows by researching and applying the research for less than three years, well shit, that's another no-brainer. I would listen to the guy who has gone twice as far in 1/10th the time.
 
GreatGunz

GreatGunz

VIP
Jun 10, 2011
1,667
166
#23
Well now dont cha know somebodies been sent to the principles office for lack of using studyhall for research! Lol
...
 
F.I.S.T.

F.I.S.T.

MuscleHead
Sep 24, 2011
1,318
115
#24
I'm trying to explain that HCG is not just about recovery or ball size. Yes it helps with those things and the recovery aspect is important, but if it were ONLY helpful in recovery and ball size then I might be more inclined to agree that it wasn't necessarily necessary for short, basic cycles (although I would still recommend it, why not recover FASTER). However, as SHINE has said many times, HCG is a neurosteroid that affects your brain as well as your HPTA. Here is a quote by SHINE from his article about pregnenolone, "whole lot of good reasons below for you guys to add your hcg in cycles to keep pregnenolone levels up, ( it's a powerful anti-inflammatory!) & also a strong neruo steroid for the brain that helps to improve moods and more!". So it is an easy, relatively inexpensive way to make cycling healthier, safer, and more effective.




Here we go with the "kid" stuff again......lol. Please call out SHINE and ask him if he agrees with you. He agreed that HCG becomes more important for recovery when you are older, but that is all he agreed to. Half of what I know about HCG I learned either from him or because he spurred me to want to read more about it, so think twice before you ask for a show of hands. Other than that, I think GetSome is the only guy who agreed with your stance that HCG is not smart to take during every cycle, and I know that makes you feel special that a SuperMod agreed with you. But he is also just a human being who has been wrong before and will be wrong again, like all of us, so yes, I disagree with both of you.

How is the physiological FACT that everyone will have the same reaction to exogenous hormones IN TERMS OF SHUTDOWN OF THE HPTA AND NEGATIVE FEEDBACK LOOPS "completely irrelevant"? LMAO, you are impossible to debate with because you fail to even comprehend what we are debating. It is completely relevant, and in fact, the very reason why HCG is necessary for anyone who is dabbling in AAS to any degree. If you can't see that, you are more ignorant than I originally thought, and that's saying something. The nolva analogy actually backs up my stance, although I know I'll have to explain that to you. Check it out. Taking nolva during cycle to keep estrogen levels in a physiologically normal/safe range (not the best thing to take obviously but I'm using your analogy) is smart not because you may be preventing gyno without even knowing it, but because you are keeping estrogen at a safe level. Gyno is not the only side effect from having high estrogen levels, and because the body wants to balance its hormones by raising estrogen levels when testosterone levels are high, it is wise from a SAFETY/HEALTH standpoint to keep estrogen levels normal.

I won't completely pick apart your entire poorly formulated rant, so I'll leave you with a few things.

Quit knocking people who know more than you because they learned it in school or by INTELLIGENTLY GLEANING INFORMATION FROM ONLINE. Accept that the internet is one of the best sources of knowledge in the world.

Quit assuming that you have learned more about INTELLIGENTLY USING AAS just because you have been using for a long time. People fucking smoked for decades thinking it wasn't killing them until the surgeon general told them it was linked to cancer. Doing something doesn't mean you know the science behind it or the ways to improve it.

Lastly, you call me kid and constantly point to the fact that I'm a relative newbie to this lifestyle (which is true),yet you've still never mentioned where all of your vast experience and knowledge has taken your body. If I met two guys in the gym who were giving me advice, and one was old, small, and weak, and was telling me that he knows so much because he's been doing it for 25 years, and the other guy is young, big, and strong, and was telling me that he knows what he knows by researching and applying the research for less than three years, well shit, that's another no-brainer. I would listen to the guy who has gone twice as far in 1/10th the time.

As for me feeling good about GS agreeing with me,I don't have to feel good about it.It doesn't change what I and countless others have proven over the yrs while you were reading something else in a book or on the internet...YOU DO NOT NEED HCG DURING EVERY CYCLE KID!!!I have still yet to hear from anyone stating that they have or do take hcg with every cycle they have run and all the terrible things that have happened to them because of it.

You want to take everything out there,by all means do it.Druggies do that so I understand your stance.Just take more drugs and you'll feel better.Im sure Valium and Xanax have been a regulars for you as well.So dont mind me if I dont take my cycling advice from a coke head that has been through a "few" cycles because he read it on the internet.

I'll say it again...IM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE YOU DO NOT NEED HCG DURING NORMAL LENGTH,NORMAL DOSED CYCLES WHILE YOU ARE YOUNG.As you get older,that changes.But taking drugs just because you need something to get you through the day isn't the right choice.Its the druggies choice.
 
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