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Clen and respitory effort

AllTheWay

AllTheWay

TID Lady Member
Mar 17, 2011
4,240
411
#1
i finished a 4 week cycle of clenbuterol on friday. i stated in my other thread that i had some significant strength gains with it at a consistent moderate dose. i started at about 40mcg for a week and then went to about 80mcg for the next 3 weeks.

in horses clenbuterol is labeled for a condition called COPD. chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder. we actually use it off label in performance horses because it allows the bronchioles to expand and the mucous and crud that is traped to be carried out into the main airways and then coughed up and out. this greatly increases a horses respiratory effort.

most racehorse will have significant bleeding issues in their lungs from the pressure put on them during racing. it has been shown that up to 87% of racing quarter horses and 72% of racing thoroughbreds will have EIPH, exercise induced pulmonary hemorrhage, during a race. the use of clen greatly reduces this and makes a horse perform better, allegedly :)

from my personal experience, i have found the opposite of this. i hate cardio and dont do much of it. but i do run on the treadmill for 5-10 min as a warm up before every workout. while on my clen cycle, this was way more difficult. i always felt like i was running a lot harder than i was. it felt like i could not get enough air. often i cut it from 10 to 5 mins because it did feel like it was taking so much more effort. this was futher cemented in my mind when i ran today and it was like i was floating and there was not the pressure in my chest that had been there the previous weeks. it has been over 72 hrs since my last clen dose and breathing was soo much easier!

so my thoughts are trying to figure out if it is a respiratory issue or a cardiac issue? im leaning towards the cardiac issue because that is a commonly listed side effect of clen. so now the question becomes, if it is cardiac issue, is it really worth it? i dont know, given that everything feels normal again, i would say probably. but i can also say that i probably wont run clen again for another year so that if there is any damage i give it enough time to heal.
 
PillarofBalance

PillarofBalance

Strength Pimp
Feb 27, 2011
17,066
4,630
#2
Shortness of breath is a common side from Clen, I don't think that much is up for debate... I feel that way sometimes with my ephedra and caffeine stack. Usually on my last dose I will feel that way for a minute or two and it coincides with anxiety and rapid heart rate. Therefore I always assumed the shortness of breath and rapid Heart rate were relative. The heart pumps faster, more oxygen is used the more must be taken in. Is this correct? I've had similar effects from albuterol.
 
AllTheWay

AllTheWay

TID Lady Member
Mar 17, 2011
4,240
411
#3
im not so sure your reasoning is correct. it is more of a heaviness than shortness of breath. like a greater effort is required to move the lungs. i need to ponder it a bit more. im sure that shine has the answer, he always has the right one :D
 
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SHINE

SHINE

MuscleHead
Oct 11, 2010
5,047
599
#4
I will say I've seen numerous post from cyclist, runners that complained there endurance lacked greatly on Clen.

Not sure I can give the answer you are looking for but I can give you some ideas.
For starters beta-adrenergic and dopaminergic drugs have a depressing effect on adrenal DHEA secretion. An affect that doesn't show up immediately but when it does you just don't seem to have that extra endurance you use to.

Now from some notes I had saved ,Reported cases of clenbuterol toxicity in humans describe sinus tachycardia, myalgia, gastrointestinal upset, and hypokalemia as the most common clinical signs. Supraventricular arrhythmias have also been reported in association with clenbuterol ingestion in people

My guess is you may have been experiencing Supraventricular arrhythmias which are tachycardias (fast heart rates and we know clen effects this) theese start in the atria or the atrioventricular node (cells located between the atria and the ventricles). Types of supraventricular arrhythmias include atrial fibrillation (AF),atrial flutter, paroxysmal supraventricular tachycardia (PSVT).

Supraventricular tachycardia (SVT) is any tachycardic rhythm originating above the ventricular tissue. Paroxysmal supraventricular tachycardia (PSVT) is a rapid rhythm of the heart that involves an accessory pathway. This is in contrast to the potentially deadlier ventricular tachycardias, which are rapid rhythms that originate within the ventricular tissue or atrioventricular (AV) node.
Symptoms can come on suddenly and may go away without treatment. They can be caused by other reasons than stress, exercise,

Most common sides are Pounding heart
Shortness of breath
Chest pain
Rapid breathing
Dizziness


Knowing that Clen certainly causes a rapid heart beat or a A heartbeat that is too fast (tachycardia) it's possible one could experience Atrial Fibrillation which is the most common type of serious arrhythmia. (taken from notes) ---> It’s a very fast and irregular contraction of the atria. AF occurs when the heart’s electrical signal begins in a different part of the atrium than the sinoatrial (SA) node or when the signal is conducted abnormally. When this happens, the electrical signal doesn’t travel through the normal pathways in the atria, but instead may spread throughout the atria in a fast and disorganized manner. This causes the walls of the atria to quiver very fast (fibrillate) instead of beating normally. As a result, the atria aren’t able to pump blood into the ventricles the way they should.

Also drugs (such as cocaine or amphetamines),use of certain prescription or over-the-counter medicines, and too much caffeine or nicotine can lead to arrhythmia in people as well.

Food for thought, hope that helps.
 
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AllTheWay

AllTheWay

TID Lady Member
Mar 17, 2011
4,240
411
#5
good thoughts shine. my heart rate never got very high. generally resting it is about 70bpm give or take. and when i would take it on clen it would be about 78-82 bpm. i remember when taking large dose of ephedrine, feeling the racing pounding heart, it was very palpable. this was more of an exercise intolerance if you will. no specific racing of the heart although i suspect maybe its function was decreased. kind of like it never had the complete contraction or never relaxed enough to fill completely. the potential for atrial fibrillation is the probably cause, it makes the most sense for what i was feeling. thanks shine!
 
SHINE

SHINE

MuscleHead
Oct 11, 2010
5,047
599
#6
There certainly seems to be a lot of effects with clen on the heart, taken from one study men Treated with clen had End-distolic dimension increased to increased significantly (4.73 +/- 0.67 vs 5.24 +/- 0.66; p < 0.01),it's possible that could effect left ventricular ejection fraction, fractional shortening. Looking at another study it shows that androgenic steroids produce an increases in myocardial stiffness , Of course clen not being a aas but I wonder if it has somewhat the same effect as androgens in this manner?

If one is going to use I'd say short cycles of clen are definitely the smartest idea.

peace.
 
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