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Clean And Press

BrotherIron

BrotherIron

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Mar 6, 2011
10,711
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It was my favorite lift 20 years ago. Now I'd get injured watching someone do it. Back to my old people machines...

Do Clean Pulls and Clean High Pulls. Both are just as effective with A LOT less risk of injury. They take the 3 pull out of the lift, so you don't pull yourself under and receive the bar.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
913
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This makes zero sense. You telling me the only thing you do for PL is squat bench and dead? You Bulgarian by any chance?

Gpp? Conjugate? I mean since when does an over head press not carry over to bench? Or the explosiveness of the clean not carry over into squats and deads?

Bulgarian? Born and raised here. I spent 27 year on the platform and ended up with 14 world records. I trained with some of the all time best in the sport, Anthony Clark, Jim Cash, John Inzer, Tiny Meeker and was actually ranked #1 and #2 in the world in two different weight classes in 1 year (2275 total). Conjugate is a training protocol used presently by Louie Simmons. GPP, is just part of it. GPP is general physical preparation and this is a phase you do before entering into your competitive phase. Many do more strong man type activities and a way to get the body prepared. Sports specific lifts are not done. However, power cleans could be done.

Now as for carry over......does the knee extension have any carry over to the squat? NO, very little, how about the leg press? A little more that knee extension. Yet how many powerlifter waste time in the gym doing them both? The bench press used the sagittal plane of movement, meaning the motion/load goes from back to front (chest out). So does the incline bench help? Absolutely not, the plane of motion has changed, transfer of strength is very poor. The overhead press uses the frontal plane. When you change the plane of movement the strength increase diminish in their capacity to transfer over. So good powerlifters learn to maximize their time in the gym using ONLY exercise that will directly benefit the core lift. The explosiveness of the clean does nto transfer over to the squat, other wise Olympic lifter would be doing low bar squats as assistance exercise for their competition instead of high bar squats or front squat. The load travels in a slightly different path meaning the stress is on different muscles. Shane Hammon tried to make the conversion to a Olympic lifter years back. He was good but never rose to the top. He had a lot of trouble making the transition from powerlifting to Olympic lifting.

Now, I never said the only thing you do for powerliting is the three lifts did I? I simpley stated that according to the law of specificity you have to simply train like you compete. Training to be an Olympic lifter will not make you a good powerlifter. So you do assistance work that is as close to the core lift as possible that way the transfer of strength from the assistance exercise is very good. Olympic lifters do the same. Arched back good morning? Same as the lockout on the deadlift. Close grip bench, same plane of movement as the bench press. JM Press, multi joint exercise for triceps that is the same plane of movement as the bench press. Board presses, same plane of movement. High and low box squats, same plane of movement as the squat.

You can go ahead and do all the Olympic movements you wish, I do remember Fred Hatfield doing a vertical jump test against a Russian Olympic lifter and he won. Obviously powerlifters are very explosive. If you are wanting to increase your explosiveness, f=m/t, as I suggested speed work using your core life. 40% - 50% of your max with rubber bands going 10-12 sets of 3 reps. Force can be increased in the same lane of movement you use in your core lift meaning it will have a direct transfer. Same with the squat and deadlift.

Olympic lifts require a whole lot of very specific technique. As a strength coach or 25 year I taught these lifts and know it took 2-3 years to develop sound technique. Now when I trained with Anthony Clark, he did a hybrid conjugate method. He would do his core lift and ALWAYS did 3 heavy single just like a meet. Then he did more of a repetitive method training for the assistance muscle groups using multiple sets at 8-12 reps. Very similar to how Louie Simmons trains his guys at West Side.
 
Last edited:
Ziegler

Ziegler

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2015
122
20
You must have never seen someone snatch. That is by far more impressive.

my dad was a champion powerlifter in the 70s & early 80s

ive seen the snatch & its not as impressive imo

the press straight up off the shoulders part it what is impressive imo

imo <---- that means not a fact

where as your saying "is by far more impressive"

insinuates fact but is not actually
 
PillarofBalance

PillarofBalance

Strength Pimp
Feb 27, 2011
17,066
4,640
Bulgarian? Born and raised here. I spent 27 year on the platform and ended up with 14 world records. I trained with some of the all time best in the sport, Anthony Clark, Jim Cash, John Inzer, Tiny Meeker and was actually ranked #1 and #2 in the world in two different weight classes in 1 year (2275 total). Conjugate is a training protocol used presently by Louie Simmons. GPP, is just part of it. GPP is general physical preparation and this is a phase you do before entering into your competitive phase. Many do more strong man type activities and a way to get the body prepared. Sports specific lifts are not done. However, power cleans could be done.

Now as for carry over......does the knee extension have any carry over to the squat? NO, very little, how about the leg press? A little more that knee extension. Yet how many powerlifter waste time in the gym doing them both? The bench press used the sagittal plane of movement, meaning the motion/load goes from back to front (chest out). So does the incline bench help? Absolutely not, the plane of motion has changed, transfer of strength is very poor. The overhead press uses the frontal plane. When you change the plane of movement the strength increase diminish in their capacity to transfer over. So good powerlifters learn to maximize their time in the gym using ONLY exercise that will directly benefit the core lift. The explosiveness of the clean does nto transfer over to the squat, other wise Olympic lifter would be doing low bar squats as assistance exercise for their competition instead of high bar squats or front squat. The load travels in a slightly different path meaning the stress is on different muscles. Shane Hammon tried to make the conversion to a Olympic lifter years back. He was good but never rose to the top. He had a lot of trouble making the transition from powerlifting to Olympic lifting.

Now, I never said the only thing you do for powerliting is the three lifts did I? I simpley stated that according to the law of specificity you have to simply train like you compete. Training to be an Olympic lifter will not make you a good powerlifter. So you do assistance work that is as close to the core lift as possible that way the transfer of strength from the assistance exercise is very good. Olympic lifters do the same. Arched back good morning? Same as the lockout on the deadlift. Close grip bench, same plane of movement as the bench press. JM Press, multi joint exercise for triceps that is the same plane of movement as the bench press. Board presses, same plane of movement. High and low box squats, same plane of movement as the squat.

You can go ahead and do all the Olympic movements you wish, I do remember Fred Hatfield doing a vertical jump test against a Russian Olympic lifter and he won. Obviously powerlifters are very explosive. If you are wanting to increase your explosiveness, f=m/t, as I suggested speed work using your core life. 40% - 50% of your max with rubber bands going 10-12 sets of 3 reps. Force can be increased in the same lane of movement you use in your core lift meaning it will have a direct transfer. Same with the squat and deadlift.

Olympic lifts require a whole lot of very specific technique. As a strength coach or 25 year I taught these lifts and know it took 2-3 years to develop sound technique. Now when I trained with Anthony Clark, he did a hybrid conjugate method. He would do his core lift and ALWAYS did 3 heavy single just like a meet. Then he did more of a repetitive method training for the assistance muscle groups using multiple sets at 8-12 reps. Very similar to how Louie Simmons trains his guys at West Side.

Yeah I actually have an education so I don't need patronizing explanations lol

Here is my argument. Getting stronger makes you stronger. And if the guy wants to do some cleans, then do some cleans. He isn't peaking for a meet right now.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
913
1,352
If you want to prevent shoulder injury while benching then overhead press.

One of the leading injuries in Olympic weight lifters is shoulder impingement pain related to over head movements. Since you accused me of insulting your education I will let you explain this one.

"Tiny Meeker, you have the highest all time bench press in history, do you do over head presses?" "No"

I don't know you and certainly don't know your education so if you got offended with my information that was not my intention. 99% of what I posted was not directed at you. I also don't know your back ground in the sport of powerlifting, if any. I gave my advice, you are fee to give yours and the guy who ask the question is free to do what he wants.
 
BrotherIron

BrotherIron

VIP Member
Mar 6, 2011
10,711
2,798
my dad was a champion powerlifter in the 70s & early 80s

ive seen the snatch & its not as impressive imo

the press straight up off the shoulders part it what is impressive imo

imo <---- that means not a fact

where as your saying "is by far more impressive"

insinuates fact but is not actually

That's cool. You watched lifters complete a Clean and Jerk, not a clean and press unless you were watching lifts performed in the early 70's and back then Oly lifting was comprised of 3 lifts and not 2; Clean and Press, Snatch, and the Overhead Press (strict). The rules were changed in the mid to late 70's and the press was replaced by the jerk where the lifter doesn't press the bar overhead. Instead they dip and drive to get under and receive the bar.

Great, you're father was a champion powerlifter in the 70's and 80's. Just fyi, powerlifting is made up of the squat, bench, and deadlift not the snatch or clean and jerk.
 
Ziegler

Ziegler

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2015
122
20
That's cool. You watched lifters complete a Clean and Jerk, not a clean and press unless you were watching lifts performed in the early 70's and back then Oly lifting was comprised of 3 lifts and not 2; Clean and Press, Snatch, and the Overhead Press (strict). The rules were changed in the mid to late 70's and the press was replaced by the jerk where the lifter doesn't press the bar overhead. Instead they dip and drive to get under and receive the bar.

Great, you're father was a champion powerlifter in the 70's and 80's. Just fyi, powerlifting is made up of the squat, bench, and deadlift not the snatch or clean and jerk.

my dad did all the lifts whether ot not in competition

also have built threads in the past on old school powerlifting with clean & press on other sites

ask pob about it so i know wtf a clean & press is

regardless of all that like i said its imo that clean and press is most impressive and looks the best

not the snatch imo
 
silvereyes87

silvereyes87

MuscleHead
May 28, 2016
285
42
Im with pob and zieg. While i appreciate everyones interest in the thread. Clean and press ultimately makes me stronger and more explosive plus i enjoy then. Also ziegs clean and press looks cooler imo aswell :).
 
BrotherIron

BrotherIron

VIP Member
Mar 6, 2011
10,711
2,798
my dad did all the lifts whether ot not in competition

also have built threads in the past on old school powerlifting with clean & press on other sites

ask pob about it so i know wtf a clean & press is

regardless of all that like i said its imo that clean and press is most impressive and looks the best

not the snatch imo

Again, that's great that you watched someone else perform the lift but I'm not sure you yourself have so as to know the level of technical difficulty in performing the 2 different lifts. It's actually easier to perform a C&J or C&P since there is more room for error in performing the lift while still maintaining the ability to finish it.

Whichever one looks more impressive to you is which one you think is more impressive. And the fact that it's far easier to clean more weight than to snatch it so that may be the reason you find it more impressive. What I urge you to do is to get on a platform and try to snatch a weight correctly.
 
Ziegler

Ziegler

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2015
122
20
Again, that's great that you watched someone else perform the lift but I'm not sure you yourself have so as to know the level of technical difficulty in performing the 2 different lifts. It's actually easier to perform a C&J or C&P since there is more room for error in performing the lift while still maintaining the ability to finish it.

Whichever one looks more impressive to you is which one you think is more impressive. And the fact that it's far easier to clean more weight than to snatch it so that may be the reason you find it more impressive. What I urge you to do is to get on a platform and try to snatch a weight correctly.

lmao me on the platform and youre right as a spectator is the only perspective im workin with to form the opinion

 
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