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Chronic Tiredness

BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
2,032
593
I hate that you have to go through this. It sounds a lot like a form of Narcolepsy. Has a Dr ruled that out?

I have some questions, do you have allergies? Or allergic to anything? Have you been checked to see if you have Anemia? Have you been checked to see if you can absorb B vitamins? Do you have any Kidney or liver problems? Do you have acid reflux? or Acid Issues? Do you ever do deep breathing?

Sorry to hear this, Slic!...I'm gonna do some research on it and see what comes up....I have a few other questions to add to JD's list...Do u remember how your sleep pattern was before age 7?....Were u in any kind of accident(s) prior to 7?....

It's hard to accept that the medical community has not been able to zero in on this....To have been plagued with it since u were 7yrs old is scary to me....Seems like someone should have been able to diagnose this....I like to research so it will be challenging to see what gives....

.
 
slicwilly2000

slicwilly2000

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2010
1,866
225
I hate that you have to go through this. It sounds a lot like a form of Narcolepsy. Has a Dr ruled that out?

I do understand what you are going through. I deal with constant fatigue all day. Moments in the afternoon where I feel I could just pass out. Some days I used to get home and fall asleep till the next day. Some days my nap was 5 hours long.

I have some questions, do you have allergies? Or allergic to anything? Have you been checked to see if you have Anemia? Have you been checked to see if you can absorb B vitamins? Do you have any Kidney or liver problems? Do you have acid reflux? or Acid Issues? Do you ever do deep breathing?

I have found that carbs in the morning make me Sleepy, and really just to many carbs in general zaps my energy. So I have some throughout the day, but I keep them low and have higher fat. Otherwise, I cannot function. The recent addition of the Sublingual B complex has made me feel a whole lot better.

So, I am not sure what you take, but this is what I've been doing over the last several years and I think I've finally found a combination.

Morning. Empty Stomach
Co-Enzyme B Complex
Sublingual B-Complex
500 Mg Vitamin C
Probiotic Garden of Life Men
SharpMind.
Rholodia Extract.
Natures Way Alive Garden Goodness Men
2 Cups of Coffee

Then I mix up a Shake with Whey Protein, Banana, Frozen Mixed Berries, Green Superfood, Peanut Butter, Organic Superfood Energy Blend, with Some Milk.

Before bed, I take this.
Valerian Root Extract
10 Mg Melatonin
Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Omega 3 fatty acids

Today I didn't follow my shake, went to brunch, and guess what? Been tired all day, Yawning, and really just trying to stay awake.
@JackD I can’t get them to test for anything. The primary care doctors in the last 16 years have been useless. I thought there was a good chance it was narcolepsy as well. I’ve talked to people that have it and some of my symptoms are similar. I can try again and see if I can find a competent primary care doctor. I had basically given up because I just got the run around every time I went for the most part. In the last 14 years the only thing they have been willing to address are cysts which I get every other year. I don’t really trust the primary care doctors that my psychiatrists recommend because they have a long history of being unwilling to test. I believe it has something to do with the insurance but with the issues I have you would think that they would want to get to the bottom of it vs put me back on stimulants. I had been told in the past that stimulants would be a last resort but the only referral I can get is to a psychiatrist and that’s exactly what they do first thing. They typically look at my charts and see that stimulants have been prescribed multiple times in my life and they just recommend more stimulants.

In regards to allergies I’m allergic to penicillin. For whatever reason I haven’t needed allergy meds since I was 12. I'm basically allergic to animals and the outdoors.

I have never been checked for anemia. I don’t believe I have acid reflux. I take a B Complex which helps with energy. I have never done deep breathing. My morning is protein for the most part. If I have carbs those make me sleepy as does gluten products. If I have a sandwich I make sure it’s gluten free.

Here is a list of what I take to the best of my knowledge:

Bacopa extract

Inositol nicotinate

Lions Mane

A broad spectrum mushroom blend

Oat straw powder

Matcha powder

Chinese rhodiola

L theanine 500mg

Magnesium glycinate 1 gram

Blue lotus tea, Butterfly pea tea, Syrian rue all mixed together. This is key to being awake. If I miss this I’m screwed.

1 grapefruit

Alpha GPC

CDP choline

Uridine

Digestive enzymes

B complex

Huperzine A

Fo-Ti

This adaptogen coffee blend which has the following: criollo cacao, cacao extract, black maca, cordyceps extract, lions mane extract, cistanche, fo-ti, rehmannia extract, and benfotiamine. For whatever reason cistanche is key to staying awake.

2.5 cups of coffee

Protein powder

Catuaba extract

Inositol

Zinc glycinate

Taurine

I think that’s everything but I could have missed something. I’ve tried Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride and Nicotinamide Mononucleotide in the past.

I will add the vitamin D. Do you have a recommendation on a brand?

Then before bed I have 1.5 grams L theanine and 2 grams Magnesium Glycinate.

Slic.
 
slicwilly2000

slicwilly2000

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2010
1,866
225
Sorry to hear this, Slic!...I'm gonna do some research on it and see what comes up....I have a few other questions to add to JD's list...Do u remember how your sleep pattern was before age 7?....Were u in any kind of accident(s) prior to 7?....

It's hard to accept that the medical community has not been able to zero in on this....To have been plagued with it since u were 7yrs old is scary to me....Seems like someone should have been able to diagnose this....I like to research so it will be challenging to see what gives....

.
No clue on the sleep pattern before age 7. I doubt my parents would remember either. No accidents prior to age 7. I got in a minor fender bender about 20 years ago. That was me and another vehicle going about 5 miles an hour at 4am and neither of us were fully awake. Medical community is full of lazy people that take the easy way out which is more stimulants or in this case adderall.

Whatever this is I will have to figure it out myself. I have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting my primary care doctor to test for anything. If I could actually find one that was competent and would order the blood work I would be wise to go buy a lottery ticket because I would have a good chance of winning. This isn't a problem with just one doctor. This is all of them going back decades. Either I am not describing it well enough or I'm not saying what they want to hear. I don't want to go back on adderall for a number of reasons. If I was a junkie this psychiatrist would be ideal.

Slic.
 
slicwilly2000

slicwilly2000

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2010
1,866
225
I have a really good GP. I kept complaining about fatigue (chronic) and eventually he did a full hormone panel. It was about 4 years after a TBI closed head injury. The injury motivated me to get back in the gym. I was in the best shape I had been in since my 20's but I felt worse and worse. I completely understand the crushing fatigue. My doc said it is likely the head injury damaged my HTPA. At the end of the day, he put me on TRT and T3 supplementation. We did them one at a time. But it really gave me my life back.

When you are in a bad place, you sometimes forget what 'normal' is like. It was really hard. The weird thing is I had no symptoms other than fatigue. My drive was normal etc. I was still natural lifetime at the time, and most people would have assumed I was cycling. I had no issues with mass or strength. Just fatigue.

I dont know if you have played with anabolics in the past, but low test can definitely make one feel tired. I do recall that you said this has been a lifelong issue, but on somethings I have dealt with for a long time, I realize my memories are not always as linear as I thought. Maybe a journal might help you identify various variables...etc.


I just took a stab with the hormonal route since it is an obvious one. Need to find a GOOD doc. My thyroid is 'sub clinical'. But my test was below bottom of the scale. A lot of dr's would say my TSH was not high enough to need thyroid treatment, but it really has helped me out. When you read on it, there is a lot of disagreement about where true low thyroid starts. Kind of like a doc telling a guy with 275 test that his levels are 'in range'.

Good luck man.
@macgyver What is the full hormone panel exactly? I will pay for it on privatemdlabs. I’m not really sure what normal should feel like. I’m consistently tired. There is one thing that prevents me from having to drink caffeine around the clock but I’m not sure how to describe it as it isn’t something I consume but rather something I do. I have had plenty of people tell me that it’s bullshit and isn’t possible. I heard about it at a conference I went to and it does work. The TCM people describe the substance as chi. There’s a few ways to get more. I figured out on my own how to increase it in my body by preventing it from leaving. It’s some visualization exercises that are necessary to do at least 4 days a week. It’s best to do every day but I would say I probably do it 5 days a week. I don’t care to delve more into this as most people don’t agree that it exists. That gets into the other bodies outside our physical body. I can make a new thread if people want to learn about it, but most people have enough that they can’t feel anything. I don’t know anyone in real life that can feel it like I can. My acupuncturist believed it was legitimate but that’s it. TCM doctor said I have low chi so some of the herbs I take address that, but I can’t full relief just by taking the herbs. I also have to prevent it from leaving. This whole aspect delves well into things most people would prefer to think don’t exist. There was a time that I chose what to consume solely by how it made me feel. If it increased my energy it was good, if it decreased it the substance was to be avoided.



Slic.
 
JackD

JackD

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Sep 16, 2010
5,613
908
@JackD I can’t get them to test for anything. The primary care doctors in the last 16 years have been useless. I thought there was a good chance it was narcolepsy as well. I’ve talked to people that have it and some of my symptoms are similar. I can try again and see if I can find a competent primary care doctor. I had basically given up because I just got the run around every time I went for the most part. In the last 14 years the only thing they have been willing to address are cysts which I get every other year. I don’t really trust the primary care doctors that my psychiatrists recommend because they have a long history of being unwilling to test. I believe it has something to do with the insurance but with the issues I have you would think that they would want to get to the bottom of it vs put me back on stimulants. I had been told in the past that stimulants would be a last resort but the only referral I can get is to a psychiatrist and that’s exactly what they do first thing. They typically look at my charts and see that stimulants have been prescribed multiple times in my life and they just recommend more stimulants.

In regards to allergies I’m allergic to penicillin. For whatever reason I haven’t needed allergy meds since I was 12. I'm basically allergic to animals and the outdoors.

I have never been checked for anemia. I don’t believe I have acid reflux. I take a B Complex which helps with energy. I have never done deep breathing. My morning is protein for the most part. If I have carbs those make me sleepy as does gluten products. If I have a sandwich I make sure it’s gluten free.

Here is a list of what I take to the best of my knowledge:

Bacopa extract

Inositol nicotinate

Lions Mane

A broad spectrum mushroom blend

Oat straw powder

Matcha powder

Chinese rhodiola

L theanine 500mg

Magnesium glycinate 1 gram

Blue lotus tea, Butterfly pea tea, Syrian rue all mixed together. This is key to being awake. If I miss this I’m screwed.

1 grapefruit

Alpha GPC

CDP choline

Uridine

Digestive enzymes

B complex

Huperzine A

Fo-Ti

This adaptogen coffee blend which has the following: criollo cacao, cacao extract, black maca, cordyceps extract, lions mane extract, cistanche, fo-ti, rehmannia extract, and benfotiamine. For whatever reason cistanche is key to staying awake.

2.5 cups of coffee

Protein powder

Catuaba extract

Inositol

Zinc glycinate

Taurine

I think that’s everything but I could have missed something. I’ve tried Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride and Nicotinamide Mononucleotide in the past.

I will add the vitamin D. Do you have a recommendation on a brand?

Then before bed I have 1.5 grams L theanine and 2 grams Magnesium Glycinate.

Slic.
@slicwilly2000

PM me where you are at, this isn't right, there are some good Dr's that do search for stuff and get stuff figured out. Need to find you someone that can rule some things out for you. There is this which might interest you https://www.viome.com I heard this on a podcast and wanted to try it.

In my research, I found that allergies could be your cause. Same with Iron. Need to see if you can actually absorb B-12 and other stuff.

Looking at what you are taking. You need to add in L-tyrosine. Now makes a 750 mg cap and take that once to twice a day. I think that will help you a lot. If you start having issues sleeping, then take it once in the morning on an empty stomach. LOL... I know you are thinking, that would be great to stay awake and not fall asleep right away.

Some thoughts on your supplements, mainly the brain stuff. I would cut out the Bacopa. I think that interferes with the other supplements. I take CDP Choline and Phosphatidylcholine which works great for memory. I also take the Shaprmind with has the Huperzine A in there. I haven't tried the Urdine, and I think the Alpha GPC is good, but you might not need it.

Anyways. I use NOW Vitamin D3 5000 iu's. I just grab it from Amazon. I also use the Coromega Max and take that once a day.

Why do you take the L-theanine during the day? Does that make you relaxed and sleepy?
 
Cutt29

Cutt29

VIP Member
Dec 29, 2016
105
32
Lots of good suggestions in here. What is stopping you from seeking a new provider? It’s hard sometimes to find the one but they are out there.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
2,032
593
No clue on the sleep pattern before age 7. I doubt my parents would remember either. No accidents prior to age 7. I got in a minor fender bender about 20 years ago. That was me and another vehicle going about 5 miles an hour at 4am and neither of us were fully awake. Medical community is full of lazy people that take the easy way out which is more stimulants or in this case adderall.

Whatever this is I will have to figure it out myself. I have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting my primary care doctor to test for anything. If I could actually find one that was competent and would order the blood work I would be wise to go buy a lottery ticket because I would have a good chance of winning. This isn't a problem with just one doctor. This is all of them going back decades. Either I am not describing it well enough or I'm not saying what they want to hear. I don't want to go back on adderall for a number of reasons. If I was a junkie this psychiatrist would be ideal.

Slic.

It's hard to fathom how long u have been dealing with this and yet no one has been able to diagnose it....That's a lot of years to have been going to physicians and NOT ONE has been able to get a grip on it....It seems like they are gravitating toward narcolepsy with the stims tho....I did a tad, shad of research the other night on it and it has quite a number of symptoms that can be associated with it....

I'm gonna keep trying to research and see what I can up with....Really hope u can find a solution my friend!...I know how it is not to be able to sleep....Don't give up!....

.
 
slicwilly2000

slicwilly2000

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2010
1,866
225
I heard about chi from a guy who was on test and winny years ago. We discussed it in detail and he convinced me it exists.
@slicwilly2000

PM me where you are at, this isn't right, there are some good Dr's that do search for stuff and get stuff figured out. Need to find you someone that can rule some things out for you. There is this which might interest you https://www.viome.com I heard this on a podcast and wanted to try it.

In my research, I found that allergies could be your cause. Same with Iron. Need to see if you can actually absorb B-12 and other stuff.

Looking at what you are taking. You need to add in L-tyrosine. Now makes a 750 mg cap and take that once to twice a day. I think that will help you a lot. If you start having issues sleeping, then take it once in the morning on an empty stomach. LOL... I know you are thinking, that would be great to stay awake and not fall asleep right away.

Some thoughts on your supplements, mainly the brain stuff. I would cut out the Bacopa. I think that interferes with the other supplements. I take CDP Choline and Phosphatidylcholine which works great for memory. I also take the Shaprmind with has the Huperzine A in there. I haven't tried the Urdine, and I think the Alpha GPC is good, but you might not need it.

Anyways. I use NOW Vitamin D3 5000 iu's. I just grab it from Amazon. I also use the Coromega Max and take that once a day.

Why do you take the L-theanine during the day? Does that make you relaxed and sleepy?
@JackD I messaged you. I'm on the phosphatidylcholine as well. So many supplements. Without the choline supplements my memory is horrible. That started about June 2014. Short term memory went south fast. I initially thought it was the alcohol consumption, so I cut that out and got into AA. No change whatsoever in short term memory from not drinking. L theanine during the day I believe removes the jitters from the coffee intake. It doesn't make me sleepy at all.

Slic.
 
slicwilly2000

slicwilly2000

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2010
1,866
225
Lots of good suggestions in here. What is stopping you from seeking a new provider? It’s hard sometimes to find the one but they are out there.
I'm actively looking for one.

Slic.
 
slicwilly2000

slicwilly2000

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2010
1,866
225
It's hard to fathom how long u have been dealing with this and yet no one has been able to diagnose it....That's a lot of years to have been going to physicians and NOT ONE has been able to get a grip on it....It seems like they are gravitating toward narcolepsy with the stims tho....I did a tad, shad of research the other night on it and it has quite a number of symptoms that can be associated with it....

I'm gonna keep trying to research and see what I can up with....Really hope u can find a solution my friend!...I know how it is not to be able to sleep....Don't give up!....

.
I've been on so many different drugs for sleep: ambien, ativan, xanax, klonopin, among others. When I was a kid I always thought the sleep issues were caused by the ritalin that they had me on the max dose of. The problem with ritalin is that they didn't have the 8 hour extended release in those days. So I was awake for the first 4 hours of school and then like a zombie the rest of the day. I would fall asleep around right after lunch and just got written up for it day after day. I had some years that I would get written up 160+ times for sleeping in class. Senior year of high school I was averaging at least one referral a day because the school couldn't figure it out that I was tired and couldn't stay awake. I had other problems too but being able to take a nap and not being rudely woken up 10 minutes in would have benefited my effort in school. I remember the school and the corrupt police department going after me for skipping school once a week. Getting treated like that every single day doesn't make you want to be a doctor or a police officer like the other kids.

Slic.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
2,032
593
I've been on so many different drugs for sleep: ambien, ativan, xanax, klonopin, among others. When I was a kid I always thought the sleep issues were caused by the ritalin that they had me on the max dose of. The problem with ritalin is that they didn't have the 8 hour extended release in those days. So I was awake for the first 4 hours of school and then like a zombie the rest of the day. I would fall asleep around right after lunch and just got written up for it day after day. I had some years that I would get written up 160+ times for sleeping in class. Senior year of high school I was averaging at least one referral a day because the school couldn't figure it out that I was tired and couldn't stay awake. I had other problems too but being able to take a nap and not being rudely woken up 10 minutes in would have benefited my effort in school. I remember the school and the corrupt police department going after me for skipping school once a week. Getting treated like that every single day doesn't make you want to be a doctor or a police officer like the other kids.

Slic.
Sorry to hear all of this, slic!....I hoping u will find some relief!....U've had to deal with this much of your WHOLE life....If u don't find some kind of solution, what a shame that would be!.....I'll keep digging, brah!....Hang in there man!....

.
 
slicwilly2000

slicwilly2000

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2010
1,866
225
I called two doctors today and neither are taking new patients. I have a call into a friend to see if he can persuade the person to take me as a patient.

Slic.
 
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