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Changing pct mid cycle

Vick

Vick

VIP Member
Jun 13, 2012
895
145
#13
OK Vick let me rephrase that for you. Scientific fact proviron is a steroid as such, a steroid causes suppression of one's natural test production thus rendering it I'll advised and counter productive to pct. Bro science be damned. I think for a newbie to come here thinking of proviron for his pct is ill advised advice.
lol I guess you didnt find the nonbroscience references, this is the same flack I use to get about Var but thanks to Graniteman we have a useful thread on an informative study, although I would rely on bro science for some things like anabolic/androgenic ratios which newbies might think the pros are using oral tren with a MENT base lol
 
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N

NattyIce

Member
Jul 14, 2014
14
0
#14
Well torem came in today. Curious on dosing. I'm technically in my second week of pct, but bear in my mind I have only done a mere 4-6 days of nolva+ clomid. This week has been without pct pills other than aromasin eod.

my Torem comes in 40mg per cap.
 
R

RDP-Gold

New Member
Oct 11, 2014
3
0
#15
most important to keep calories up.. but it really just means it will take that much longer for you to rebound.
 
mands

mands

VIP Member
Jul 24, 2012
617
206
#16
Proviron should only be ran during PCT if you DO NOT want to recover. Proviron at 50mg will shut you down slightly.

Varma TR, Patel RH. The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men. Int J Gynaecol Obstet 1988;26(1):121-8.ScienceDirect.com - International Journal of Gynecology & Obstetrics - The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.


Szollosi J, Falkay GY, Sas M. Mesterolone treatment of patients with pathospermia. Int Urol Nephrol 1978;10(3):251-6.

The response to Mesterolone, in doses of 25 mg/day, was examined in 42 pathospermic patients. Treatment lasted for 100 days. The pronounced response to the Mesterolone treatment was observed in hypozoo- and oligozoospermia with low initial fructose content in the ejaculate. Fructose content attained its normal range after the treatment. During the therapeutic period 11 wives became pregnant. The authors conclude that Mesterolone does not influence plasma FSH, LH and testosterone levels, it has only peripheral effects.


Jackaman FR, Ansell ID, Ghanadian R, McLoughlin PV, Lewis JG, Chisholm GD. The hormone response to a synthetic androgen (mesterolone) in oligospermia. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1977;6(5):339-45.

Forty subfertile men with oligospermia were treated with a synthetic androgen (Mesterolone). The effect of the drug was evaluated by measuring serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH),follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and analysing the semen before and after treatment. The results demonstrated that in twenty-three patients treated for 6-9 months there was a significant decrease in serum testosterone (P less than 0.01); the means +/- SEM before and after treatment were 17.05 +/- 0.95 and 14.7 +/- 0.95 (nmol/l serum) respectively. There was a pronounced increase in serum LH (P less than 0.01),the values being 2.73 +/- 0.26 and 3.61 +/- 0.3 (u/l) respectively. However, no significant difference was found in serum FSH before and after treatment. The sperm concentration showed a variable response to treatment. In twenty-one patients there was either no change or worsening in the sperm concentration, whereas in nineteen patients an improvement was observed. The analysis of variance of sperm concentration and motility for the periods before and after treatment, for all the patients, showed no significant difference in the sperm concentration F1.145 = 2.82 (P=0.1).


Nikkanen V. Plasma cholesterol, triglycerides, FSH and testosterone levels of normolipemic male patients with decreased fertility treated with mesterolone. Andrologia 1979;11(1):33-6.

There were no changes in plasma cholesterol, triglycerides, FSH and testosterone levels of 24 healthy men treated with mesterolone for infertility during period of 6 months. The patients were normolipemic and the daily doses were 75 mg. No side-effects were noticed. Mesterolone seems to have too selective or too low androgenic effect with the doses used in order to have an influence on the lipid metabolism of men.


Kovary PM, Lenau H, Niermann H, Zierden E, Wagner H. Testosterone levels and gonadotrophins in Klinefelter's patients treated with injections of mesterolone cipionate. Arch Dermatol Res 1977;258(3):289-94.

Hormone levels were measured in patients with Klinefelter's syndrome after treatment with 100 mg mesterolone cipionate (twice monthly). There was no difference in plasma testosterone and FSH levels in treated and untreated patients. The basal and maximum LH levels were lower, but remained raised. The urinary excretion of testosterone as measured by liquid gas chromatography was higher in treated patients after treatment was discontinued. From these results it is concluded that in spite of reported decreases of plasma testosterone during therapy with mesterolone cipionate this drug does not lead to severe impairment of the endogenous hormone production after discontinuing treatment.


Nikkanen V. The effects of mesterolone on the male accessory sex organs, on spermiogram, plasma testosterone and FSH. Andrologia 1978;10(4):299-306.

42 subfertile male ambulatory patients were treated with Proviron. Moderate oligoastheno-teratozoospermia was the most common injury in sperm analysis. The treatment did not change the amount of plasma FSH, testosterone or prostate phosphatase. Acid phosphatase and citric acid of semen showed an increased activity with mesterolone treatment. The amount of fructose decreased, it is probably due to the increased number of spermatozoa, which need more fructose for their metabolism respectively. The sperm of 93% of the patients improved or stayed unchanged. 30% of the patients developed normozoospermia. 6 pregnancies were achieved.


Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S. Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure. Horm Metab Res 1984;16(9):492-7.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in t3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)


Shittu LAJ, Shittu RK, Osinubi AA, Tayo AA. Mesterolone (Proviron) induces low sperm quality with reduction in sex hormone profile in adult male Sprague Dawley rats testis. Scientific Research and Essays. 2009;4(4):320-7.http://www.academicjournals.org/sre/pdf/pdf2009/Apr/Shittu et al..pdf

Anabolic-androgenic steroid compounds are one of the most widely abused drugs by athletes and muscle builders with the goal of improving performance/muscle mass. However, increasing concern has been expressed because these compounds not only offer unappreciable benefits to infertile and subfertile males, but also might have deleterious effects on both human and animal physiology including sperm quality. In addition, there is the conflicting outcome of AAS usage in the clinical settings with its attendant reduced spermatogenesis and hypopituitarism in patient management. Hence, we aim to evaluate the effects of mestorolone, an anabolic-androgenic steroid, on the histomorphometry of seminiferous tubules with serum hormonal and seminal analyses in adult male Sprague-Dawley rat.

Twenty adult male Sprague dawley rats divided into two groups of 10 each. The treated group received 0.06 mg/g body weight/ day of mesterolone (proviron) by oral gavage for six weeks while the control group received equal volume of 0.9% normal saline per day. SPSS analysis of data generated with P< 0.05 considered statistically significant. The result showed significant (P< 0.05) body weight gain in all the animals. However, both the raw testicular weight and relative testicular weight per 100 g bwt was significantly (P< 0.05) higher in control than treated. The mean sperm count significantly decreased by 28% (P< 0.05) and the motility reduced significantly by 56% (P< 0.05) in the treated compared to control. In addition, both FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and T (testosterone) of the treated were significantly lowered by 73% (P< 0.05) and 63% (P< 0.05) respectively compared to the control. The use of mesterolone is with caution and short intermittent therapy is desirous for better semen quality and improved overall fertility.

Sorry to disagree with you here VICK. I think Proviron can be used in short periods of time as you might use Viagra.

mands
 
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