Latest posts

Forum Statistics

Threads
24,974
Posts
489,873
Members
27,623
Latest Member
Sharon Needles
What's New?

Body Building and Kidney Health

M

myosin

VIP Member
May 27, 2011
482
345
Astralagus, 2-3 grams, twice a day (Dante Trudel)
 
OldManStrength

OldManStrength

VIP Member
Apr 8, 2015
1,143
393
Yea I’m also interested in these two....
 
DungeonDweller

DungeonDweller

VIP Member
Mar 21, 2017
1,039
755
What I get out of this is testosterone, in any form, at any level (even natural) is bad for your kidneys. What is best for your kidneys is to be a vegan non-lifter who has been castrated.

But testosterone has positive benefits (hence doctor prescribed TRT). What the video did not do was put the kidney damage in perspective... how much testosterone, how much damage, versus how much positive effects and quality of life. Okay, testosterone causes damage, then they reference pro bodybuilders with renal failure... well what about for the average gym rat who runs light cycles now and again?
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
1,517
384
What I get out of this is testosterone, in any form, at any level (even natural) is bad for your kidneys. What is best for your kidneys is to be a vegan non-lifter who has been castrated.

But testosterone has positive benefits (hence doctor prescribed TRT). What the video did not do was put the kidney damage in perspective... how much testosterone, how much damage, versus how much positive effects and quality of life. Okay, testosterone causes damage, then they reference pro bodybuilders with renal failure... well what about for the average gym rat who runs light cycles now and again?
I've been on TRT twice (8 month run, 10 month run or so),now, nothing...Anyway, on my second run, I was chatting with the nurse whom would give me the shot...We were discussing how test could bring back vitality and certain other positive aspects for an aging man...So, as we were finishing our convo, I told her how I hoped it would help with bringing back some of my lost muscle...She smiles, and as she was walking out of the room says, "you know test doesn't build muscle"....Then closes the door...As u can imagine, I was stunned...Prior to that convo, on my first run of TRT, during the initial consultation with the doc, he was adamant about telling me how test is an mass builder, ect, ect...

So, in my opinion there is a lot of propaganda on it....It would be nice to be able to get conclusive, non-argumentative data on the matter...I find it hard to believe at present that, the right amount of test is detrimental to a man's health...
.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
587
889
I guess you knew I would have some comments on this since we recently discussed it. First off, it is very rare that these issues even come up. The one case people keep pointing to are like when Flex Wheeler announced in 1999 that he was suffering from the disease. His doctor said that Flex’s case was genetic (its a black thing). People that have a normally fuctioning kidney rarely have any issues. The solution......get blood testing done every 6 months or so and keep up with you BUN, creatinine, eGRF, and serum protein. The eGFR typically shows how well the glomerulus is filtering. Just remember that you may get a false high with a high protein diet, high muscle mass and creatine supplements. If you are still concerned do the cystatin C test wich is much more accurate for athletes. Keep your blood pressure in check. High blood pressure really does a number on kidneys over time and is usually the case with extreme high doses of steroids. Calcium channel blockers are often used to keep the blood pressure in check. Reaserch shows that calcium channel blockers are well-suited for the treatment of patients with hypertensive disease even in the presence of renal impairment, a clinical scenario common in the elderly population. Research also shows ARB's work the same way and are very kidney protective.
.

I honestly feel a big deal over a rarity is being made. Here is why.......the kidneys are the main filtering organ for the body and are composed of small filtering units called glomeruli. You’re born with a certain number of glomeruli, and they can’t regenerate or increase in number. When you gain an extreme amount of muscle mass, each of those individual filters must work a little harder to help the body dispose of waste products. This is called hyper-filtration. It is considered to be a normal adaptation to a high protein diet and high muscle mass. Probably eating more protein causes more glucagon release from the pancreas. This hormone works with cyclic AMP, to decrease the pressure of filtration through the glomeruli. So in reality it is not considered harmful to anyone who has normally functioning kidneys. To date, it has never been shown in humans that a diet high in protein is harmful to the kidneys in those who have a normally functioning kidney. In fact, a study of bodybuilders published a few years ago found no kidney impairment in 35+ well-hydrated bodybuilders who ate up to 1.9 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight each day. Solution.....a normal intake of water by drinking it until urine is clear should theoretically be enough to protect the kidneys from an excessive protein load.

I cut the creatine supplements for 4 weeks and just had a serum CMP done a week ago, also cut the protein down to 1g/lb/bw (still considered high protein).

BUN - 16 (7-25mg/dL)
Creatinine - 1.21 (0.70-1.25mg/dL)
eGFR - 63 (>60)
Protein - 7.2 (6.1-8.1g/dL)

Thus, no reason to believe my kidneys are not functioning normally. Although I have used steroids for 41 years of my 65 years. Have not taken a day off for over 10 years. Again, keep hydrated to where urine is a very light color and get that comprehensive metabolic panel done every 6 months. These rare issues can be avoided if you keep on top of your health.
 
rawdeal

rawdeal

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 29, 2013
2,852
1,669
Your numbers about daily grams protein per pound of bodyweight are very much in line with what "Anabolic Doc" says in his (many) youtube entries.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
587
889
Your numbers about daily grams protein per pound of bodyweight are very much in line with what "Anabolic Doc" says in his (many) youtube entries.

IMHO, most of us don't need more than 1g/lb/bw. If you are competitive, then your protein needs definitely increase. If you are dieting the need for protein increases and honestly helps because of the extra energy used in digestion due to the high thermic effect of food with protein (+25-35%). This is also why BB's go to very high protein diets. You can eat a huge amount of calories, support max hypertrophy and increase the rate which you burn calories (oxidize body fat) by the high thermic effect of protein.

A High Protein Diet Has No Harmful Effects: A One-Year Crossover Study in Resistance-Trained Males

In conjunction with our prior work, we further examined blood lipids as well as other markers of health. We found no deleterious effects of high protein consumption. There were no changes in blood lipids as well as renal or hepatic function. On average, subjects in this investigation consumed ~3 g of protein per kilogram of body weight daily for four months (~1.36g/lb+). In fact, the subjects with the two highest levels of protein intake showed no changes in renal function despite exceeding the RDA by 483–724 %. Thus, it is evident that even at very high protein intakes, there are no harmful side effects. They also found that the rate of fat oxidation also caused the fat mass to drop at a much higher rate.

J. Antonio, A. Ellerbroek, T. Silver et al., “A high protein diet (3.4 g/kg/d) combined with a heavy resistance training program improves body composition in healthy trained men and women—a follow-up investigation,” Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, vol. 12, no. 1, article 39, 2015.

Prior work from our laboratory has shown that consuming protein (2.3–3.4 g/kg/d) in amounts that are 3-4 times greater than the RDA results in a similar FFM increase for both the normal and high protein groups [6]; however, the high protein group lost more fat mass compared to the normal protein group in spite of the fact that they consumed on average ~400 kcals more per day over the treatment period.

I have known Jose Antonio since the mid 80's when he lived in Dallas, Texas. Here is a video on the consumption of high protein which covers both of these studies.

 
rawdeal

rawdeal

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 29, 2013
2,852
1,669
Always one (at least!) little detail in your posts I either did not know or else did not consider enough. In this case, it was that whole thermic effect discussion. Don't go anywhere, Bigtex!

#nomorethanborderlinehomo
 
Top