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BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
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While our finite existence continues, structures can and ought to change for the good (better). We can’t say “Well since the Bible reveals the futility of the world and it’s ultimate demise (“Revelation” — the destruction of the present, and a new world and heaven established), then we have to continue the present system.”

Doing what’s best for the planet is diametrically opposed to what’s best for big business (the world system).
Nothing can change until the incentive structure (ultimately, value structure) changes. Until the present system becomes economically unacceptable rather than monetarily rewarding.

Remember we’re told: “Do not be conformed to this world [system], but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

I do agree that we need/should do our part in keeping our environment (planet) in check...That includes, "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you"....

If u think about it, that one "Golden Rule" if followed by ALL in the global society, would easily resolve probably 90% of humanity's problems?!...In other words, "mankind" needs a good dose of attitude change?!...So then, for me, it is apparent without a doubt that humanity will NOT apply this rule!...Again, for me, it is a FALSE HOPE to believe that we (humans) can "fix" this system?....


.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
749
715
I do agree that we need/should do our part in keeping our environment (planet) in check...That includes, "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you"....

If u think about it, that one "Golden Rule" if followed by ALL in the global society, would easily resolve probably 90% of humanity's problems?!...In other words, "mankind" needs a good dose of attitude change?!...So then, for me, it is apparent without a doubt that humanity will NOT apply this rule!...Again, for me, it is a FALSE HOPE to believe that we (humans) can "fix" this system?....


.
I agree. So…. the resolve is to fix ourselves, because ultimately we’re the biggest problem, collectively.
Fixing ourselves — a new value system would essentially fix the system.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
5,362
3,258
Hey TB, thanks for the posts. The videos you include contain a LOT of info, so it's gonna take me some time to dig through it. But I appreciate you providing.

Some of the things you said in your post:

"The system your post makes a defense for, is an inherently increasingly corrupt construct. The market system is waste, exploitation, imbalance/inequality, etc…..
This has proven irrefutable throughout the course of history. The very thing you’re seeming to defend (that largely stems from enculturation rather than deeply analyzed facts) is where the “better” I speak of is vital to comprehend."

The history of man on the planet is only about 5,000-10,000 years old, and but for only extremely brief spurts of time where democracy/republic forms of gov't with the Greeks and Romans existed, the entire history of man prior to 250 years ago was tribal, strongman forms of gov't, where mercantile capitalism was not exercised. So the course of history doesn't tell us much about capitalism, as it's pretty much a small blip in time over human history.

I do agree with you that exploitation is bad, and that capitalism has its share of it. But isn't it more a function of the human condition? such that it's really more a function of where you have human interaction you have exploitation? The reason I say that is that communism and socialism (as well as fascism) have all done a pretty good job of exploitation as well. Nevertheless, I do agree with you that identifying exploitation and rooting it out is a worthy goal of any structure.

Inequality... that's a tough one for me. Why do we expect anything other than unequal outcomes? We're not all equal, and that's always been pretty obvious to me for as long as I can remember. Some of us are smarter than others. Some of us are faster than others. Some of us are harder workers than others. When such huge disparities exist on the input side, why are we shocked when we get disparate results? Just think of your HS senior class? You knew who was going to jail, and you knew who was going to be successful. (always a few exceptions!) Why did you know this? Some people were lazy asses, some people were bulldogs who always gave 100%. No shock that those people generally did quite well for themselves. The only way to "fix" these types of inequality is for an institution to exist that is strong enough to "take" from one individual and "transfer" it to another individual. Such a remedy takes a very strong institution having enough power to easily be corrupted. Just one example is all the socialist gov't leaders in Venezuela... the lights are still on in their neighborhood, aren't they?

Bottom line is I think inequality is only a problem when the bottom group of people don't have enough, NOT when the disparity reaches some arbitrary amount. For example, let's say a family of 4 needs $40K/year to "make it." If one family of 4 has $30K and another family has $100K, I see a problem because the smaller family doesn't have enough to make it. If they both magically had their income triple, the one family has $90K/year, and the other has $300K/year. If you only need $40K to make ends meet, is the new situation better or worse? I'd say it's better because the family has $50K more than what they need, however, the disparity between the two families has tripled from $70K to $210K. So, is the new situation better or worse? If you focus on inequality you say the second situation is worse. I say hogwosh.... That's why I say that income inequality in the US is BS. The gang bangers in the hood aren't starving, and don't steal because they're hungry. The fact that Bezos or Musk have billions compared to them has no bearing on anything, IMO.

Just some of things that go through my mind. I will try to check out the videos!
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
749
715
Hey TB, thanks for the posts. The videos you include contain a LOT of info, so it's gonna take me some time to dig through it. But I appreciate you providing.

Some of the things you said in your post:

"The system your post makes a defense for, is an inherently increasingly corrupt construct. The market system is waste, exploitation, imbalance/inequality, etc…..
This has proven irrefutable throughout the course of history. The very thing you’re seeming to defend (that largely stems from enculturation rather than deeply analyzed facts) is where the “better” I speak of is vital to comprehend."

The history of man on the planet is only about 5,000-10,000 years old, and but for only extremely brief spurts of time where democracy/republic forms of gov't with the Greeks and Romans existed, the entire history of man prior to 250 years ago was tribal, strongman forms of gov't, where mercantile capitalism was not exercised. So the course of history doesn't tell us much about capitalism, as it's pretty much a small blip in time over human history.

I do agree with you that exploitation is bad, and that capitalism has its share of it. But isn't it more a function of the human condition? such that it's really more a function of where you have human interaction you have exploitation? The reason I say that is that communism and socialism (as well as fascism) have all done a pretty good job of exploitation as well. Nevertheless, I do agree with you that identifying exploitation and rooting it out is a worthy goal of any structure.

Inequality... that's a tough one for me. Why do we expect anything other than unequal outcomes? We're not all equal, and that's always been pretty obvious to me for as long as I can remember. Some of us are smarter than others. Some of us are faster than others. Some of us are harder workers than others. When such huge disparities exist on the input side, why are we shocked when we get disparate results? Just think of your HS senior class? You knew who was going to jail, and you knew who was going to be successful. (always a few exceptions!) Why did you know this? Some people were lazy asses, some people were bulldogs who always gave 100%. No shock that those people generally did quite well for themselves. The only way to "fix" these types of inequality is for an institution to exist that is strong enough to "take" from one individual and "transfer" it to another individual. Such a remedy takes a very strong institution having enough power to easily be corrupted. Just one example is all the socialist gov't leaders in Venezuela... the lights are still on in their neighborhood, aren't they?

Bottom line is I think inequality is only a problem when the bottom group of people don't have enough, NOT when the disparity reaches some arbitrary amount. For example, let's say a family of 4 needs $40K/year to "make it." If one family of 4 has $30K and another family has $100K, I see a problem because the smaller family doesn't have enough to make it. If they both magically had their income triple, the one family has $90K/year, and the other has $300K/year. If you only need $40K to make ends meet, is the new situation better or worse? I'd say it's better because the family has $50K more than what they need, however, the disparity between the two families has tripled from $70K to $210K. So, is the new situation better or worse? If you focus on inequality you say the second situation is worse. I say hogwosh.... That's why I say that income inequality in the US is BS. The gang bangers in the hood aren't starving, and don't steal because they're hungry. The fact that Bezos or Musk have billions compared to them has no bearing on anything, IMO.

Just some of things that go through my mind. I will try to check out the videos!
Appreciated.
When I mentioned history — I was referencing modern economy, i.e., the isms. Capitalism in its relative infancy has proven its corrupted nature and destructiveness…. as other isms before it.
 
Last edited:
Swiper

Swiper

VIP Member
Jan 8, 2011
1,191
1,066
I think you guys are giving capitalism a bad name because you think America practices capitalism which it doesn’t. there’s nothing capitalistic about private ownership but complete government control and our monetary system has nothing to do with capitalism.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
749
715
I think you guys are giving capitalism a bad name because you think America practices capitalism which it doesn’t. there’s nothing capitalistic about private ownership but complete government control and our monetary system has nothing to do with capitalism.
……. OK
 
HDH

HDH

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
2,587
1,798
I appreciate you sharing and discussing Bro. These are matters we all face collectively across the world despite differing enculturation, personal views, etc. We’re all spinning around on this little marble together — a closed set of systems that impact us all. We’re a weird species!

I want to highly recommend you view the Peter Joseph discussion with Brian Rose. It clears up a lot about the thinking of Peter, his broad knowledge, and it’s stimulating and inspiring. Not so utopian like his old project partner from the Venus Project. They parted ways. Peter’s studies are extensive, diverse, and his vision is entirely relatable once you’ve truly heard him out. Please have a listen, it will answer a good many questions.
I started trying to watch both of them but my old ass keeps falling asleep. Not due to the content, I'm getting off of work when I'm trying.

Season is picking up quickly here in fl. Lots of northerners looking to live free for a while. We are having trouble with help (workers) like the rest of the states.
 
HDH

HDH

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
2,587
1,798
HDH,
You may be interested in hearing at least a bit of this. Peter Joseph, the Zeitgeist creator did an interview on Brian Rose show, London Real, sometime back about 7 years ago (I believe it was).
If you view it and want to forward right to where they start, then begin at right about the 9:30min mark.
I finally got a chance to watch this over the weekend. For this to work out correctly, it appears the whole planet would just about have to be broken down to nothing and some type of uprise. I say this because of all the corruption, we know the global powers would never allow it.

He talks about a single country possibly breaking off from the banks but I'm not sure how that could the beginning. Others may follow, none with enough power or influence to make the world's nations come together. I would expect mass destruction to pull the world together first.
 
DungeonDweller

DungeonDweller

VIP Member
Mar 21, 2017
1,389
1,146
I think you guys are giving capitalism a bad name because you think America practices capitalism which it doesn’t. there’s nothing capitalistic about private ownership but complete government control and our monetary system has nothing to do with capitalism.
Government regulation also takes a lot of what is capitalistic out of the system. Laissez-faire died with the Great Depression.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
749
715
I finally got a chance to watch this over the weekend. For this to work out correctly, it appears the whole planet would just about have to be broken down to nothing and some type of uprise. I say this because of all the corruption, we know the global powers would never allow it.

He talks about a single country possibly breaking off from the banks but I'm not sure how that could the beginning. Others may follow, none with enough power or influence to make the world's nations come together. I would expect mass destruction to pull the world together first.
Bro, I’m happy you actually watched it. There is no ONE way to the scale of change that is irrefutably necessary, and inevitable.
Theres a lot of articulate and creative thought required — creativity, thinking outside the box. I don’t discount the potential of just about any well articulated models put forth. Being so indoctrinated as we’ve been, and clinging to the status quo of our centralized system of control will be hard to evolve away from — they’ll be resistance put forth regardless what shape the model takes. So…. WE (individuals) have to transform our thinking first and foremost before any system can be transformed. A critical mass is necessary, so it won’t be quick, but must occur nonetheless.
I hate that the most likely route to change is more war, catastrophe, and then there’s no promise in that at all that the status quo system won’t be the one to resurface. I don’t know the path toward the change that has to happen, but an intelligent creativity is a vital part of it and that’s why
I find encouragement and inspiration from Peter Joseph’s thinking.
 
HDH

HDH

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
2,587
1,798
Bro, I’m happy you actually watched it. There is no ONE way to the scale of change that is irrefutably necessary, and inevitable.
Theres a lot of articulate and creative thought required — creativity, thinking outside the box. I don’t discount the potential of just about any well articulated models put forth. Being so indoctrinated as we’ve been, and clinging to the status quo of our centralized system of control will be hard to evolve away from — they’ll be resistance put forth regardless what shape the model takes. So…. WE (individuals) have to transform our thinking first and foremost before any system can be transformed. A critical mass is necessary, so it won’t be quick, but must occur nonetheless.
I hate that the most likely route to change is more war, catastrophe, and then there’s no promise in that at all that the status quo system won’t be the one to resurface. I don’t know the path toward the change that has to happen, but an intelligent creativity is a vital part of it and that’s why
I find encouragement and inspiration from Peter Joseph’s thinking.
LOL, ya I wasn't pulling your leg. It's an interesting subject. I wish we could just fast forward about 400 years so I can order from a food replicator and stop cooking :p

I agree, people have to feel it before any type of significant movement can be made. It seems an all out world war would be the easiest way, I'm hoping not though.

He did say something about a small country, possibly latin american, could break off from the banks and get it rolling. El salvador is one of the countries that has made bitcoin legal currency. They have decided to build a "bitcoin city", which means the city will be built with btc and only take btc as currency. They are also building it next to volcano so they can harness the energy (geothermal) from it to mine the btc.

They are already starting to say el salvador should not be using btc for currency and hillary clinton just announced that btc will ruin the worlds economy and no one should be using it. This accounts for the drop across the board. Anyone than that listens to hillary, including banks more than likely sold their shit off.

I wonder how far they will let it go. They can't let a country succeed and make it without them. If they can do it, so can every other country.

I'm seeing a funeral in this poor fellas future. I hope he's watching his ass.

 
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