Am I lifting in the right direction?

[Rooster Cogburn]

Sooo.... lurked here for a while and recently joined the forum.

Long story short- I have been in the gym 4 days a week for the past 6 and feel like I am ready for a routine. What routine? I am not sure and don't really pretend to know. I am looking to add 20- 25lbs over the next 24 months.

Me-
42 years old
165lbs.
6'
Body fat- probably 20- 25%
Not sure of my body type but tall/ lanky would be accurate. I was called a 'hard gainer' by my previous workout partner.

According to some online calculator, I need the following, diet-wise, to add muscle/ bulk.
3000 calories a day
190gms of protein
280gms of carbs

For what that's worth, I have been trying to hit those numbers mostly with regular foods over 4 meals and one snack. I supplement with a gainer-protein shake after my workout. Depending on how my day went and my ability to eat to 4 meals... I sometimes add a protein shake before I go to bed if I didn't hit my protein/ carb targets. I haven't really been tracking fat intake as I am not worried about that at this point... but I know I should be getting enough.

Supplements-
Multi-Vitamin
Whey protein shake
Gainer protein shake
Creatine


Up to the end of last week, I had a workout partner that was a previous Div-1 linebacker from a pretty prestigious program. He played back in the early 90's. (He had an unfortunate accident on his property and is now unable to join me for the foreseeable future.)

He created our workouts based on how he trained as an athlete in the off-season.

Our week at the gym mostly went like this-

Mon- Uppder body (chest/ tri/ shoulders/ upper back)
Tues- Lower body (squat/ deadlift/ rows/ biceps/ calf)
Weds- Off
Thurs- Upper body
Tues- Lower body
Sat- Off
Sun- Off


Earlier in my life when I was serious about gaining muscle and weight... I was able to gain about 2lbs a month... working out 3 days a week with a routine that was-
back/ bi - Mon
chest/ tri- Weds
legs/ shoulders- Fri
Weekends off.

I was 'dialed in' at this time with my diet and program... well diet for sure as I didn't have kids and a wife so it was easier to focus on 'me.'

Anyway, can someone tell me I am on the right track with the upper/ lower split- 4x a week?
Or could you recommend an already existing routine that would help me, as a beginner, to gain 20- 25lbs of muscle over a 24-month period?
Am I beling realistic?

I will add- I don't recover as fast as I used to... I added the gainer shake instead of just pure whey as I thought maybe the carbs would help with energy levels and recovery. Just started that last week and I do feel more energy at the gym... unsure about helping recovery at this point though.


Many thanks for any and all thoughts!
-Rooster

 

[RIR0]

20-25% is too fat. You’ll just get fatter and end up 30-40%. With as much bf as you have and also being a complete beginner you’ll gain muscle in a deficit

 

[genetic freak]

I did that exact split from around March 2020 to around September 2022. It works well, as long as you are not doing too much volume. Those splits really benefit the high intensity low volume lifters. If you lack intensity, you leave a lot on the table. If you use too much volume, you will not recover fast enough for second workout of the week. You can check out my log on here if you want any ideas.

I changed to a three day split (push/pull/legs), but go MTThF. For the first week it would like: M - push, T - pull, Th - legs, F - push; second week: M - pull, T - legs, Th- push, F - pull; third week: M - legs, T - push, Th - pull, F - legs. Repeat. This allows for greater recovery, which is needed when you push hard and the weights are heavy.

I am a little older than you and still have plenty of energy for the gym. I would look at your diet. High carbs do not always equate to more energy, especially if your bodyfat is already high. Honestly, you would probably have more energy cutting carbs down to 150-200 grams. Quality carbs too, not weight gainers.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Thank you, gents.

Just as a preface... I have read/ researched on this site only for the past few weeks. I wanted to come into weight training, this time, with a fresh mind and not be biased towards methods I used prior or brand-new research/philosophy. So I may ask questions that seem really basic but I want to be sure my mind is right and... well... I may just be a stupid newb.

To RIRO's point-
I can back down the caloric intake to 2000 and keep protein where it should be. A short search seemed to indicate 15- 18.5% was an 'underweight' BMI... should I aim for this or lower? (The calculator I used for macros was indicating 2500 calories was maintenance for me.) Let's say I get to an 'ideal' BMI... I assume I am letting my body decide how many calories it 'needs' after that by weighing in and averaging my weekly weight? Then increase/decrease calories based on my goals.

To Genetic Freak's comments-
Thank you for your thoughts. My concern with the low volume/ high intensity is- I don't have a partner there when I need to advance in volume and push past heavier weights. That's always been my inner little bitch... scared to lift heavy by my lonesome... but I have to get used to it now.

I did check out your journal... I will continue to read it... made it to through page 3 last break.

I will ditch the gainer powder for now... maybe work it in once the BMI comes down and I need to add calories back. (I figured it was a bad idea but for some reason, I just didn't feel 'right' in the gym.. and gambled on more carbs. maybe that's what I get for comparing late 20's to early 40's- in age- gets you haha!)

Just for reference, this was my upper body today... working off the lifts given me by my now-defunct workout partner...

Incline barbell press- 4 sets x 12/10/8/6 reps
Bent over, narrow grip rows- 4 sets x12/10/8/6 reps (Not sure of name... but one end of barbell slides into a receiver that has a plate at base... position the base at the adjacent wall... then you slide handle over other end of barbell and hang weights on that end of barbell and lift)
Barbell Shoulder press- 4 sets x 12/10/8/6 reps
Lat pull downs- 3 sets x 12/10/8
Barbell flys- 2 sets x 12/10
Dumbell squeeze press- 2 sets x 10/8
Cable tricep extension- 3 sets x 15/12/8
Cable Facepulls- 3 sets x 15/12/10

Thanks for the help!

 

[genetic freak]

Thank you, gents.

Just as a preface... I have read/ researched on this site only for the past few weeks. I wanted to come into weight training, this time, with a fresh mind and not be biased towards methods I used prior or brand-new research/philosophy. So I may ask questions that seem really basic but I want to be sure my mind is right and... well... I may just be a stupid newb.

To RIRO's point-
I can back down the caloric intake to 2000 and keep protein where it should be. A short search seemed to indicate 15- 18.5% was an 'underweight' BMI... should I aim for this or lower? (The calculator I used for macros was indicating 2500 calories was maintenance for me.) Let's say I get to an 'ideal' BMI... I assume I am letting my body decide how many calories it 'needs' after that by weighing in and averaging my weekly weight? Then increase/decrease calories based on my goals.

To Genetic Freak's comments-
Thank you for your thoughts. My concern with the low volume/ high intensity is- I don't have a partner there when I need to advance in volume and push past heavier weights. That's always been my inner little bitch... scared to lift heavy by my lonesome... but I have to get used to it now.

I did check out your journal... I will continue to read it... made it to through page 3 last break.

I will ditch the gainer powder for now... maybe work it in once the BMI comes down and I need to add calories back. (I figured it was a bad idea but for some reason, I just didn't feel 'right' in the gym.. and gambled on more carbs. maybe that's what I get for comparing late 20's to early 40's- in age- gets you haha!)

Just for reference, this was my upper body today... working off the lifts given me by my now-defunct workout partner...

Incline barbell press- 4 sets x 12/10/8/6 reps
Bent over, narrow grip rows- 4 sets x12/10/8/6 reps (Not sure of name... but one end of barbell slides into a receiver that has a plate at base... position the base at the adjacent wall... then you slide handle over other end of barbell and hang weights on that end of barbell and lift)
Barbell Shoulder press- 4 sets x 12/10/8/6 reps
Lat pull downs- 3 sets x 12/10/8
Barbell flys- 2 sets x 12/10
Dumbell squeeze press- 2 sets x 10/8
Cable tricep extension- 3 sets x 15/12/8
Cable Facepulls- 3 sets x 15/12/10

Thanks for the help!

That is called a landmine or corner bar row. I love them. You can also do them one handed with the bar to your side off your hip, like a dumbbell row or you can do a Meadows' Row (just google it).

Exercise selection is good. Number of exercises, good. Number of sets are also good. The number of reps for warming up is a personal preference. I might do my first warm up in the 10-20 rep range then the rest are usually in the 3-5 rep range. I just want my body to get used to the increasing weight and save myself for the working set/intensity set/top set, whatever you want to call it. That is always taken to failure with a minimum of 8 reps, but usually shooting for 12+ reps for safety.

I also might do an entire exercise that is just a warm up, but that also means my working exercise is only going to have 1-2 warm up sets before going all out.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Appreciate the feedback, GF.

I think I can continue working with what I have, routine-wise, for a while, and change it up here & there with grips and slight alterations in the movements/ pauses/ negatives etc... until I have some more time under my belt in the gym and learn more about lifting in general and how my body is responding.

Interesting take on your set progression... makes sense... I just never thought of it like that.

Again, many thanks!

 

[Markson Andrews]

...

 

[Friggemall]

I'm late herr and guys have you coverd but glad to see you are ditching the weight gainer. Not knowing which one you are using, most have way too much sugars & fat in them. That's how they dump 1000 calories in 1-2 scoops. What that will get you is a bloated gut look. I can tell you that one from past experience. You are absolutely skinnyfat and I was there until about 40 y/o until I started learning better nutrition too.
Your basic BMR is 1,650kcals for maintenance. (165x10)
It takes 3,500kcal to create 1 lb
Divide that by 7 days per week and you get 500kcals
Add the 500kcals to your BMR of 1,650kcals and you get 2,150kcals
So you will need 2,150kcals/day to gain 1 lb per week. That is only 430 kcals per meal if consuming 5 meals a day.

Honestly though, I'd want to get my bf down closer to 15%. Now with that said, a clean diet and simple HiiT fasted cardio starting at 12 minutes 40 seconds normal tempo, 20 seconds fast. After a couple weeks up it to 14 minutes, then after another 2 weeks go up to 16 minutes. No cardio on leg day. If you are training hard, following quality nutrition plan, doing the cardio and getting rest, I promise you after only 1 month you will see noticeable improvements that will make you say "hell yes" to yourself. TAKE WEEKLY pictures to be accountable to yourself.

On your preworkout meal have something with a little more fat, like 97% lean ground beef 9you can go 93% if you don't have 97) and rice to have that fat for fuel.

Most importantly, show up even when you don't want to brother. Keep killing it, you are on your way!

 

[genetic freak]

Most importantly, show up even when you don't want to brother. Keep killing it, you are on your way!

Absolutely! Give 100% every day for optimal growth of your mind, body and spirit. Some days it will be easy and other days it will be hard as hell. However, those days where life is dragging you through the mud and you don't feel like giving it your all, are the days it is of the upmost importance to give 100%, because those will be the days you grow the most. Maybe not your muscles, but you will grow your mindset.

 

[searay]

Dogg Crapp routine, rest/pause, by Dante Trudell is by far the best strength and muscle gain routine I have ever done. I have not been able to use it due to the constant inj. I have had over the past 10 yrs. The 1st 13 wk cycle I did I made amazing strength gains and had personal bests on most of my lifts. Look it over, it can be a bit complicated at first, but once you figure it out it becomes very simple. If you do look at it and have questions let me know, I'd be happy to help.

 

[pincushn]

Frig and GF covered it. Cant add to their well knowledge advise

 

[Friggemall]

Absolutely! Give 100% every day for optimal growth of your mind, body and spirit. Some days it will be easy and other days it will be hard as hell. However, those days where life is dragging you through the mud and you don't feel like giving it your all, are the days it is of the upmost importance to give 100%, because those will be the days you grow the most. Maybe not your muscles, but you will grow your mindset.

Exactly this, and once you gt in the gym and get warmed up, you will get into it and be glad you showed up!