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Advice on cycle structure sustanon + andriol + boldenone + deca

S

Superphysio

New Member
Sep 13, 2010
9
0
#1
Hi guys,

Here are my stats

height 5´5´´ weight 165 lbs at 9% bodyfat. Training experience 18 years. Cycling experience cicled from 19 years old till 24 years old -that was between 1990-1994- used mainly sustanon, primo depot, boldenone, deca and testosterone enantathe, although did anadrol and anavar and a test mix called triolandren 250 once. Got to 210 pounds at 13% bodyfat at that time, national champion in Venezuela.

I want to do a cycle again as I want to compete in bodybuilding again next year. I´m 37 yo now and haven´t used roids in the last 14 years. Reading some cycles examples in several recent books I´ve realized that they keep dosages constant through the cycle. Is this the right thing to do? In the past I always cycled up and down i.e started on lower dosages went up and then lowered the dosage again.

What I have available which I know is legit is Sustanon 250, Andriol Testocaps-testosterone undecanoate- (due to costs I can use up to 10 caps a day for 12 weeks or so),Boldenone 50 mg and Deca 50 mg. Can also find legit Proviron, Clomid, HGC and Nolvadex.

I´m planning to use up to 1 sustanon weekly, up to 10 andriol caps, 400 mg boldenone and 400 mg deca as top dosages.

Another question is reharding HCG and Clomid. How much to use and when to use it during, after...?????

Regards,
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#2
It sounds like you need to do a little bit of research to bring yourself up to speed. I'm sure things have changed quite a bit from the mid 90s. Yes, I would keep your dose constant throughout. The only way I would consider doing it differently is by frontloading. Personally, I think Andriol is a waste of time. I would invest more of your money in a higher dose of Sustanon, that's the way to go. You'll get more bang for your buck. As far as the Deca and Bold, that's up to you. You have to figure out what your goals are and then put them into action. The highest concentration you cn get for either of those is 50mg/ml? I'm assuming that's vet grade. I would look into getting some higher dosed gear so you don't have to pin as much, and maybe just start out with a Sustanon only cycle.

Hmmmm, it's weird to me that you don't know about Clomid, Nolvadex, HCG, etc. But, like I said times have changed so I understand. Do a little research on the web and I think you'll quickly find what you're looking for.
 
T

THE-DET-OAK

Senior Member
Sep 11, 2010
135
9
#3
i agree with Get Some, forget about the andriol.

as for deca or EQ i would pick one or the other.

for size a test/deca/dbol cycle is prolly the most effective bulking cycle.

i like proviron, but i prolly wouldnt add it to the cycle til week 8
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#4
i agree with Get Some, forget about the andriol.

as for deca or EQ i would pick one or the other.

for size a test/deca/dbol cycle is prolly the most effective bulking cycle.

i like proviron, but i prolly wouldnt add it to the cycle til week 8
Ya, proviron can come in very handy later in a cycle if your libido starts to fall. It's also good for cutting excess sub-Q water (at higher doses).
 
S

Superphysio

New Member
Sep 13, 2010
9
0
#5
Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice. I know about clomid, nolvadex and HCG just wanted to know how much things have changed so I can adapt my knowledge to modern practices. I´ve been reading about it and came up with HCG 2500 everyother day for 16 days after finishing the cycle (afc),clomid for 30 days 100 mg daily afc and nolvadex 20 mg daily for 45 days afc. Now, this means I have to take nolvadex the whole cycle + 45 days after, right?

GetSome, what is frontloading? As for the money, I buy everything over the counter, its not big deal for the pocket so I´ll stack the Andriol and see how it goes. I read that for it to be effective I have to take around 12 caps daily. The boldenone is vet, deca is human both in 50 mg. I agree to stick with one or the other so I´ll use the boldenone. Not sure about increasing the dose of Sustanon, after all, I´m repacking muscle size and since I haven´t done anything in so long receptors should be like new. I´ll use Proviron later in the cycle, GetSome mentioned higher dosages, how high??

A couple more questions.

1. There´s another version of the boldenone called peso pesado (translates heavy weight) made in Colombia. It comes in 200 mg/cc but with added B1+B6 vitamins, don´t remember the dose. Any thoughts on injecting these vitamins?
2. Why did cycles changed from pyramid to constant dosage? Just curiosity

Cheers,
 
T

THE-DET-OAK

Senior Member
Sep 11, 2010
135
9
#6
I would not run Nolva the entire cycle. Nolva simply blocks estrogen at the receptor, it does not lower estrogen. Plus nolva lowers Igf-1 and we dont want that.

Here is my opinion on how you should run your cycle.

Im a deca man, and would much rather run that than EQ, to get gains off EQ you need to run about 800mg a week for 15+ weeks. EQ should start to flourish around week 9-10.

the reson for the high dose with EQ, a lot of people I know dont even notice they are on it @ 600mg. deca can be ran at half the dose with twice the gains.

EQ cycle

1-16 test deca 500-750mg a week
1-16 EQ 800-900mg a week

if you want to control estrogen during your cycle, i would choose an Aromatose inhibitor. my choice being aromasin (exemestane). you could use this @ 12.5mg ED to keep estrogen in check. although i like to have it on hand and use it when needed.

the reason you want to use an AI instead of a SERM (nolva) during cycle, is because AI's slow the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. This will lead to lower levels of estrogen in your system instead of just blocking them with Nolva.

Your SERM treatment should start no sooner than 21 days after the last injection of the 2 compounds you chose. i myself prefer clomid, or a combo of nolva and clomid.

did i miss anything?
 
S

Superphysio

New Member
Sep 13, 2010
9
0
#7
Hi Det-Oak,

Sorry my first language isn´t english, ED and SERM stand for? What about Sustanin and Andriol??

Another question guys, how many times should the EQ and/or Deca be injected per week. Being slow release substances I´d say once a week should do, what do you think?
 
T

THE-DET-OAK

Senior Member
Sep 11, 2010
135
9
#8
Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator = SERM

ED, QD = Every DAY

sustanon is testoterone, it is a blend of 4 esters.

testosterone propionate
testosterone isocaproate
testosterone phenyl propionate
testosterone decanoate

so the same cycle i suggested works for sustanon as well.


you should pin at least 2x per week

you should research as much as possible to develop an understanding of all these compounds
 
Last edited:
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#9
To be completely honest with you, the best bulking cycle I ever ran was dbol/test/deca/EQ. Nothing came close to that. But, I'm not so sure that's a good choice for you just getting back into things. I really don't think the andriol is going to give you what you are looking for. Why? Because Andriol and Sustanon are exactly the same thing...Testosterone! The delivery method is just different. Andriol is Test suspended in oil within a gel cap where Sustanon can be injected and much more of the active ingredient is used and not wasted. So, if I were you, I would run 500mg EW of Sustanon and drop the Andriol. 500mg is just 2 shots a week, that's not bad at all. And because of the shorter esters, you will definitely want to shoot at least twice a week.

As for the Deca and/or EQ, I would still shoot that twice per week to help keep levels more stable. Plus, at only 50mg/ml, you'll have to shoot about 10cc's a week just to get 500mg! Can you fit 10cc's into one or 2 muscles? I hope not.

I've heard of Peso Pesado before. A source I know of offers a free bottle of it with a certain purchase amount. I don't know anyone who has taken it though. B vitamins are usually water based injections while EQ is oil based. So it seems weird that they would come mixed like that.

Proviron - I use it up to 100mg ED without a problem. It doesn't stress the liver too much so you know a lot of it is being wasted. That's why you need to take the higher dose.

Frontloading is when you take a higher dose in the first week than you will run for the rest of the cycle. Frontloading gives the effect of having the loger esters "kick in" a bit quicker. After injection, the EQ and Deca start to become bioavailable immediately. But, the "half-life" is the amount of time it takes for half of the effective dosage to be released. With higher initial dose or two, you can replicate lower dosages "kicking in." By the tme you reach the 3rd or 4th week, your levels start to normalize and the regular injections you are taking start to catch up. The frontloading just keeps you ahead of the game.

Another option would be to "kickstart" your cycle with an oral like dbol or injectable test like propionate
 
S

Superphysio

New Member
Sep 13, 2010
9
0
#10
Hi GetSome,
The more you write the more questions I have which is a good thing. So far, what I´ve read about Andriol is a love-hate relationship, users either love it or hate it. However, if I use Andriol wouldn´t it have the kickstart effect you talk about?

I understand the rationale behind frontloading I studied a bit of basic pharmacology in my PT training. Let´s say I choose to use Sustanon+Andriol+Eq, would you frontload both the Sustanon and the Eq, even though I´d be using Andriol?

On the other hand, given that Sustanon has four different esters –which means 4 different half lives at different concentrations- which one would you use to calculate the front load?
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#11
Hi GetSome,
The more you write the more questions I have which is a good thing. So far, what I´ve read about Andriol is a love-hate relationship, users either love it or hate it. However, if I use Andriol wouldn´t it have the kickstart effect you talk about?

I understand the rationale behind frontloading I studied a bit of basic pharmacology in my PT training. Let´s say I choose to use Sustanon+Andriol+Eq, would you frontload both the Sustanon and the Eq, even though I´d be using Andriol?

On the other hand, given that Sustanon has four different esters –which means 4 different half lives at different concentrations- which one would you use to calculate the front load?
You don't really need to frontload the Sustanon because the propionate, phenylpropionate, and isocaproate esters will kick in just a couple weeks after the first injection. The EQ on the other hand, can be frontloaded for sure. The undecylenate ester is a VERY long releasing ester and will take several weeks to fully kick in. When you get to week 8 the EQ along with the Decanoate ester in Sust should be firing on all cyclinders.

Andriol is test undecanoate, a very long ester. So, effectively you wouldn't get much benefit from it right away. But, if you were to use a compund like Dianabol, you would likely see results the 2nd or 3rd day. This is because the half life is about 4-6 hours, so it doesn't take long for peak blood concentrations to become a reality. This is what I recommend you do if you can get your hands on some dbol.
 
S

Superphysio

New Member
Sep 13, 2010
9
0
#12
So I could frontload the Andriol too right? Another question, I was reading somewhere in tis site about changing estes at the end of the cycle so recovery of endogeous testosterone would be easier. Any advice on that, maybe switching from boldenone to primo depot at week 8 perhaps?
 
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