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HGH on an empty stomach

mands

mands

VIP Member
Jul 24, 2012
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This one comes close to an answer. Yet none measure gh suppression as bb level doses day v night v non dosed. Hence my statement. It's educated speculation. Both ways.
Read the other studies and look a little deeper. GH secretion is suppressed around the 24 hour mark. Here is another one for you since you can't do your own homework. I know the burden of proof lies on me for making the statement. But, I don't really feel like holding your hand through all of this. All of this should be common knowledge.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC423324/

mands
 
mands

mands

VIP Member
Jul 24, 2012
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I totally agree with your protocols.
Couple questions tho:
What do you think about HGH post workout?
Don't you think it's dangerous to advise Humalog in the AM along with HGH and don't eat for 2 hours? Maybe you mean in that case you don't have to postpone your first meal. You're gonna need sugar to avoid hypo.
I apologize for the misunderstanding. I should of placed with food in the statement instead of just leaving out the statement "not to eat for 2 hours" as I did on the lipolysis recommendations. Sorry about that.

mands
 
mands

mands

VIP Member
Jul 24, 2012
625
218
I totally agree with your protocols.
Couple questions tho:
What do you think about HGH post workout?
Don't you think it's dangerous to advise Humalog in the AM along with HGH and don't eat for 2 hours? Maybe you mean in that case you don't have to postpone your first meal. You're gonna need sugar to avoid hypo.
I do not think it's necessary if taking pre workout as IGF-1 and insulin actually increase satellite cell proliferation in muscles and this can be utilized pre workout with your GH and insulin.

If you start taking gh/insulin after workout it should be a very low dose due to mgf and proliferation of cells. It's counterproductive to your cause.

mands
 
Gms585

Gms585

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Mar 17, 2017
754
485
Read the other studies and look a little deeper. GH secretion is suppressed around the 24 hour mark. Here is another one for you since you can't do your own homework. I know the burden of proof lies on me for making the statement. But, I don't really feel like holding your hand through all of this. All of this should be common knowledge.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC423324/

mands


I don't really want to argue with you... mostly because I dont care but also because i get a sense that you and I wont discuss civilly.

I will just say this if you actually read this article you feel proves your dosing method correct you will find that after a GH injection your natural production is suppressed for up to 24 hrs. NOT after 24hrs... So actually by trying to make me look wrong you proved that your dosing is NOT based on science at all and definitely not based on your posted study.
"This impaired pituitary response to GRF persisted for at least 24 h following exogenous GH treatment "

so thanks for the education.

Allow me to say again... even after reading these very enlightening studies I have never seen..........
Outside GH injections appear to suppress natural production. To what extent when using bodybuilding doses is anyone's guess.
It would stand to reason that if
1) it has a suppressive nature
2) blood level are highest around injection time
3) natural levels peak during sleep
by injecting directly prior to sleep you are at the minimum shorting yourself Slightly on natural GH levels.

However, as no real studies have been done on this its all educated guessing AKA broscience.
 
mands

mands

VIP Member
Jul 24, 2012
625
218
I don't really want to argue with you... mostly because I dont care but also because i get a sense that you and I wont discuss civilly.

I will just say this if you actually read this article you feel proves your dosing method correct you will find that after a GH injection your natural production is suppressed for up to 24 hrs. NOT after 24hrs... So actually by trying to make me look wrong you proved that your dosing is NOT based on science at all and definitely not based on your posted study.
"This impaired pituitary response to GRF persisted for at least 24 h following exogenous GH treatment "

so thanks for the education.

Allow me to say again... even after reading these very enlightening studies I have never seen..........
Outside GH injections appear to suppress natural production. To what extent when using bodybuilding doses is anyone's guess.
It would stand to reason that if
1) it has a suppressive nature
2) blood level are highest around injection time
3) natural levels peak during sleep
by injecting directly prior to sleep you are at the minimum shorting yourself Slightly on natural GH levels.

However, as no real studies have been done on this its all educated guessing AKA broscience.
As I said my protocols are backed on studies and anecdotal experiences and feedback. We can discuss civilly if you would like but I can't speak to someone that has such hard opinion that they can't figure out that you aren't shorting anything by injecting before sleep.

So are we talking GH levels and that we know that they are impaired for at least 24 hours correct. So please tell me if you are on exogenous GH what does it matter for suppression purposes only about natural peak levels at night?

They will be suppressed with either night or morning injections. So what's your question again? Wasn't the question based on morning or night injections and suppression?

What do you mean no real studies on what?

mands
 
Last edited:
Gms585

Gms585

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Mar 17, 2017
754
485
As I said my protocols are backed on studies and anecdotal experiences and feedback. We can discuss civilly if you would like but I can't speak to someone that has such hard opinion that they can't figure out that you aren't shorting anything by injecting before sleep.

So are we talking GH levels and that we know that they are impaired for at least 24 hours correct. So please tell me if you are on exogenous GH what does it matter for suppression purposes only about natural peak levels at night?

They will be suppressed with either night or morning injections. So what's your question again? Wasn't the question based on morning or night injections and suppression?

What do you mean no real studies on what?

mands

you understand that nearly the moment a hormone or drug is in your system it's half life begins to take effect. GH has a rapid half life. This is why the dose is not really supressive after 24hrs. So lets look at this logically. If this is an overtime process not a magicall at 24hrs POOF the gh is gone and your producing again.
A person who injects at 8am and goes to bed at say 10pm will have 14hrs of degradation of GH. OR less then half the suppression at night. IDK how you can read these studies and not conclude the same.
Where as a person injecting right before bed will have the largest portion of suppression at the most critical time for natural production.
 
mands

mands

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Jul 24, 2012
625
218
you understand that nearly the moment a hormone or drug is in your system it's half life begins to take effect. GH has a rapid half life. This is why the dose is not really supressive after 24hrs. So lets look at this logically. If this is an overtime process not a magicall at 24hrs POOF the gh is gone and your producing again.
A person who injects at 8am and goes to bed at say 10pm will have 14hrs of degradation of GH. OR less then half the suppression at night. IDK how you can read these studies and not conclude the same.
Where as a person injecting right before bed will have the largest portion of suppression at the most critical time for natural production.
Actually the half life starts after peak concentrations are met. And peak concentration of GH happen around the 4-6 hour mark.

I understand completely how the pharmacokinetics of exogenous GH and I understand depending on injection type when peak levels occur and degradation and clearance from the body.

"Impaired pituitary response to GRF persisted for at least 24 h following exogenous GH treatment" What does this mean? And this isn't the only mechanism that is "impaired or shuts down because of feedback mechanism. It's only when you return to normal baseline levels will you start releasing GH again on your own.

I guess we won't see eye to eye on this and I have given plenty of studies to back my protocols and claim. So, I guess people can take what they want from them.

mands
 
mands

mands

VIP Member
Jul 24, 2012
625
218
GH blood levels vs. GH half life is very different. Even though exogenous GH half life it very short the blood plasma levels of GH is elevated and stay high for hours. In turn this cause the negative feedback loop to shut down normal pulses for at least 24 hours.

I didn't want there to be any confusion on drug half life and actual plasma blood life.
mands
 
mands

mands

VIP Member
Jul 24, 2012
625
218
@Gms585 here is something else to think about:

1. If you are on replacemecd therapy for gh you already have low gh and pulsing along low igf-1 levels. If you do your dose at night you wouldn’t be hindering much. Plus you will get the lypolis effect form fasting.

2. If you are a body builder you wil most likely be taking larger doses to get a higher igf- level than you are naturally. So what will the small natural pulses do at night for you?

mands
 
Gms585

Gms585

VIP Member
Mar 17, 2017
754
485
@Gms585 here is something else to think about:

1. If you are on replacemecd therapy for gh you already have low gh and pulsing along low igf-1 levels. If you do your dose at night you wouldn’t be hindering much. Plus you will get the lypolis effect form fasting.

2. If you are a body builder you wil most likely be taking larger doses to get a higher igf- level than you are naturally. So what will the small natural pulses do at night for you?

mands


An extra iu is an extra iu.

I understand your thinking. I just feel differently. Either way I rarely use gh due to the price. Since mk hit the scene and became highly available I just would rather spend the money on gear...

Or other shit.
 
ChuckLee

ChuckLee

Member
Oct 16, 2017
67
25
I apologize for the misunderstanding. I should of placed with food in the statement instead of just leaving out the statement "not to eat for 2 hours" as I did on the lipolysis recommendations. Sorry about that.

mands

Absolutely no need to apologize. You are very knowledgeable on this matter and I just wanted to clear that point out

I do not think it's necessary if taking pre workout as IGF-1 and insulin actually increase satellite cell proliferation in muscles and this can be utilized pre workout with your GH and insulin.

If you start taking gh/insulin after workout it should be a very low dose due to mgf and proliferation of cells. It's counterproductive to your cause.

mands

I meant taking it post workout instead of pre. I understand that a natural GH pulse is released after workout so I would wait for 30 minutes before shooting the exogenous GH.
I've tried to take GH and Slin pre workout in the past (15 minutes apart) and I felt like the one was suppressing the effect of the other. Neither any tytpical GH sides at 10IU nor any hypo sympthom from the slin (I tried taking almost zero carbs in the hope to feel it but nope). I am not diabetic and I was using pharmacy Humalog.
For the next time I'm trying to plan it the most effective way possible to get the best out of GH, Slin and IGF combo, so I was even thinking of training in the AM, shoot GH, train after few hours in the PM and shoot slin. IGF? Still have to figure where to locate it in my day.
I really appreciate your advice bro
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
6,311
4,997
Mands, I presently pin GH every day first thing in the morning. I then train in a fasted state, and don't eat my first meal until at least 3 hours after pinning the GH.

In the past I thought pinning in the morning was better to avoid suppression of whatever GH I'm still making in my system during my sleep (which now appears to not be the case from the discussion above). If I were to move my pinning protocol to right before bed (I pin about 3 IUs/day), would I expect to see any different results, other than perhaps less lethargy during the day?
 
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