I think I'm following, can u please elaborate . Not harassing just honestly wanting to understand where you are coming from. I agree that all of us do respond differently to different degrees and I think we need pct either way. Despite that some disagree . Am I reading too much into this or are you just basically saying that?
I'm trying to explain that HCG is not just about recovery or ball size. Yes it helps with those things and the recovery aspect is important, but if it were ONLY helpful in recovery and ball size then I might be more inclined to agree that it wasn't necessarily necessary for short, basic cycles (although I would still recommend it, why not recover FASTER). However, as SHINE has said many times, HCG is a neurosteroid that affects your brain as well as your HPTA. Here is a quote by SHINE from his article about pregnenolone, "whole lot of good reasons below for you guys to add your hcg in cycles to keep pregnenolone levels up, ( it's a powerful anti-inflammatory!) & also a strong neruo steroid for the brain that helps to improve moods and more!". So it is an easy, relatively inexpensive way to make cycling healthier, safer, and more effective.
Kid,im not getting into a debate with you on this.Lets see a show of hands in this thread that have already agreed with me.I seem to have read everyone in here agreeing including the mods.So I guess we're all ignorant according to you.Once again,if we don't agree with your very narrow and limited knowledge on cycling then we're all ignorant?
As far as everyone being shut down from cycling,thats completely irrelevant.What is very relevant is how tough it is for you to recover.What you're saying is "hey if I take nolva during a cycle I will prevent gyno" without ever finding out if you need it.Thats exactly what you're saying.Saying HCG is NEEDED for every cycle is ignorant and once again shows your lack of knowledge on the matter.Trying to state such health issues that could happen if you don't take hcg means nothing in practice.What DOES happen to you and you alone is what determines how you will run a cycle,how you will run pct and what you will take during both.Not what some b/s you were told in class or read on an internet board.Keep reading man,its doing you well.I'll keep pounding away at the iron and cycling the correct way that has worked for me and obviously everyone else in this thread.
How can say the things I say? I can say these things from actual facts.Unlike you I have the time in to see first hand what effects cycling has had on me.My dr and blood tests are all the proof I need.The countless others that I have been involved with getting the same results from their dr's and blood tests are the proof I need.FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE not what I read like you.
Oh yeah,and since thread wasn't even started by me its funny how you started a debate with me about it.LMAO
Here we go with the "kid" stuff again......lol. Please call out SHINE and ask him if he agrees with you. He agreed that HCG becomes more important for recovery when you are older, but that is all he agreed to. Half of what I know about HCG I learned either from him or because he spurred me to want to read more about it, so think twice before you ask for a show of hands. Other than that, I think GetSome is the only guy who agreed with your stance that HCG is not smart to take during every cycle, and I know that makes you feel special that a SuperMod agreed with you. But he is also just a human being who has been wrong before and will be wrong again, like all of us, so yes, I disagree with both of you.
How is the physiological FACT that everyone will have the same reaction to exogenous hormones IN TERMS OF SHUTDOWN OF THE HPTA AND NEGATIVE FEEDBACK LOOPS "completely irrelevant"? LMAO, you are impossible to debate with because you fail to even comprehend what we are debating. It is completely relevant, and in fact, the very reason why HCG is necessary for anyone who is dabbling in AAS to any degree. If you can't see that, you are more ignorant than I originally thought, and that's saying something. The nolva analogy actually backs up my stance, although I know I'll have to explain that to you. Check it out. Taking nolva during cycle to keep estrogen levels in a physiologically normal/safe range (not the best thing to take obviously but I'm using your analogy) is smart not because you may be preventing gyno without even knowing it, but because you are keeping estrogen at a safe level. Gyno is not the only side effect from having high estrogen levels, and because the body wants to balance its hormones by raising estrogen levels when testosterone levels are high, it is wise from a SAFETY/HEALTH standpoint to keep estrogen levels normal.
I won't completely pick apart your entire poorly formulated rant, so I'll leave you with a few things.
Quit knocking people who know more than you because they learned it in school or by INTELLIGENTLY GLEANING INFORMATION FROM ONLINE. Accept that the internet is one of the best sources of knowledge in the world.
Quit assuming that you have learned more about INTELLIGENTLY USING AAS just because you have been using for a long time. People fucking smoked for decades thinking it wasn't killing them until the surgeon general told them it was linked to cancer. Doing something doesn't mean you know the science behind it or the ways to improve it.
Lastly, you call me kid and constantly point to the fact that I'm a relative newbie to this lifestyle (which is true), yet you've still never mentioned where all of your vast experience and knowledge has taken your body. If I met two guys in the gym who were giving me advice, and one was old, small, and weak, and was telling me that he knows so much because he's been doing it for 25 years, and the other guy is young, big, and strong, and was telling me that he knows what he knows by researching and applying the research for less than three years, well shit, that's another no-brainer. I would listen to the guy who has gone twice as far in 1/10th the time.