Am I wrong??

[Pooh6369]

I used low dose Deca (100mg) once a week for joint relief. I have a buddy who swears 100mg of NPP he uses it for the same reason.
But giving the half life of NPP a few days would it be as effective as decanoate??
Told him I would post up so he can read the reaction.
Got a sushi buffet bet going here!!

 

[rawdeal]

So, assuming it's the Nandrolone that provides the benefits, a 100mg of NPP will have more active Nandrolone than 100mg of Deca due to ester weights. "One" for your buddy, maybe.

But there is that more complicated peaks + troughs thing between NPP + Deca. If you two are each just injecting 100mg once per week, seems like "One" for you. If he splits his 100 into 2 or 3 or eod injections, then he might defeat the peaks + troughs, and it may be "0 + 2" for pooh.

Otoh, are you 2 sushi freaks really talking mgs, or mls? Most of the NPP on Lists is 100 or 200 mg/ml. I've seen Deca @200mg/ml, but mostly @300mg/ml, and some higher than that ... without doing the math, this could complicate your bet if either one of you really is talking 100 mgs while the other one really meant he injects 100 mls of his product.

 

[Send0]

So, assuming it's the Nandrolone that provides the benefits, a 100mg of NPP will have more active Nandrolone than 100mg of Deca due to ester weights. "One" for your buddy, maybe.

Context, despite how it might read.... I am not arguing with anything you said. I find this topic interesting specifically because of the difference in molar weight between NPP vs deca not actually being that much different. So I hope you don't mind me jumping in and being a little nerdy.

I've seen people get confused in the past thinking they are going to get a significant amount more actual hormone (different from active hormone released) between NPP and Deca. Typically it's true that shorter esters have a good amount more than longer esters, but in the case of nandrolone it's not a significant amount more of actual hormone different between the two esters. It's only ~5% difference.

The main difference is the amount released over a period of time. However even this can be misleading. Let's say you take 100mg of NPP and 100mg of deca. The deca will take longer to reach it's peak value compared to NPP, but over time it will be pretty close to the same. The duration of each esters length does effect peak and trough values as well, but when averaging it out over the duration between injections they still come out to be about the same.

Here's the break down of amount of actual hormone in both esters, by using their molecular mass to calculate it.

Nand. (no water)molecular weight = 274.4
Nand. Decanoate molecular weight= 428.6
Nand. Phenylprop molecular weight= 406.6

Active hormone in 100mg deca: 100 *(274.4/428.8) = ~64mg

Active hormone in 100mg in phenylprop: 100 * (274.4/406.6) = ~67.4mg

The difference here is 5%, but the peaks are 15% when plotted out. I will admit that I'm too lazy to calculate the average amount of hormone released between injection frequency, but I promise it does roughly average out to the 5% difference between the two esters seen in the calculation.

This goes back to the point by @rawdeal . The esters not only play a role in how quickly it's released, but it also factors in to the peaks and troughs due to the time span at which they are released.

I intentionally did my best to use injection frequency to get the peaks and troughs to be as similar as possible. Again, this is not exact... It's a just a calculated plot. However 5% difference in molar mass vs 15% plotted... Either way I'd think they'd both feel about the same when trying to use an injection frequency that would make the peaks and troughs similar.

 

[Send0]

Context, despite how it might read.... I am not arguing with anything you said. I find this topic interesting specifically because of the difference in molar weight between NPP vs deca not actually being that much different. So I hope you don't mind me jumping in and being a little nerdy.

I've seen people get confused in the past thinking they are going to get a significant amount more actual hormone (different from active hormone released) between NPP and Deca. Typically it's true that shorter esters have a good amount more than longer esters, but in the case of nandrolone it's not that much actual not there's not a significant amount more of actual hormone between the two esters. It's only ~5% difference.

The main difference is the amount released over a period of time. However even this can be misleading. Let's say you take 100mg of NPP and 100mg of deca. The deca will take longer to reach it's peak value compared to NPP, but over time it will be pretty close to the same. The duration of each esters length does effect peak and trough values as well, but when averaging it out over the duration between injections they still come out to be about the same.

Here's the break down of amount of actual hormone in both esters, by using their molecular mass to calculate it.

Nand. (no water)molecular weight = 274.4
Nand. Decanoate molecular weight= 428.6
Nand. Phenylprop molecular weight= 406.6

Active hormone in 100mg deca: 100 *(274.4/428.8) = ~64mg

Active hormone in 100mg in phenylprop: 100 * (274.4/406.6) = ~67.4mg

The difference here is 5%, but the peaks are 15% when plotted out. I will admit that I'm too lazy to calculate the average amount of hormone released between injection frequency, but I promise it does roughly average out to the 5% difference between the two esters seen in the calculation.

This goes back to the point by @rawdeal . The esters not only play a role in how quickly it's released, but it also factors in to the peaks and troughs due to the time span at which they are released.

I intentionally did my best to use injection frequency to get the peaks and troughs to be as similar as possible. Again, this is not exact... It's a just a calculated plot. However 5% difference in molar mass vs 15% plotted... Either way I'd think they'd both feel about the same when trying to use an injection frequency that would make the peaks and troughs similar.

View attachment 12981

View attachment 12982

Now then, the reason I got all nerdy and why this is interesting to me is because I have tried both esters for joint relief. In actual practice I felt nothing from NPP, but got *some* joint relief from deca. In theory you'd think it would be the other way around. The only thing I can think of is that the slower decline into the trough was somehow beneficial instead of the daily steep drop offs.

At the same time, I have heard people say they get more relief from NPP over deca.

I don't believe the ester actually has anything to do with it. I suspect that it's more about how the peaks and troughs are managed, but this is 100% speculation with no evidence to back it.

Anyway, I wrote a shit ton to basically say the same thing @rawdeal said

 

[Pooh6369]

Thanks @rawdeal @Send0 . I'm taking away from this is . We both have a valid argument for each esther.
Oh well gotta pay for my own sushi

 

[CFM]

If its not broken why fix it?

 

[Wallyd]

Imo at that low of a dose they should both be practically identical for what you’re wanting. I prefer NPP for other reasons & don’t run it that low so I can’t say I’ve tried both for joint relief.

 

[Pooh6369]

Imo at that low of a dose they should both be practically identical for what you’re wanting. I prefer NPP for other reasons & don’t run it that low so I can’t say I’ve tried both for joint relief.

I'm a big nandrolone Dan at my advance age. Along with some test. My next blast gonna try NPP, because hold a lot of water on Deconate.
But a real low dose during trt for joint relief.

 

[IronBreez]

Got a sushi buffet bet going here!!

What is your favorite kind of sushi?

 

[Pooh6369]

What is your favorite kind of sushi?

Bit of a purist here, sashimi, eel, octopus and shrimp. Not a big fan of those specialty rolls.

But the place I go had a Spam roll with avocado and crab, it's a guilty pleasure.
Born and raised in Hawaii the Spam capitol, gotta have some a few times a year!!!

 

[rawdeal]

. . . . So I hope you don't mind me jumping in and being a little nerdy . . . .

Lol, I'd call that a LOT nerdy, Send0, and I don't mind at all. Only given it a quick read so far ... the appearance is you may have corrected my thinking here, and I don't mind that either. I usually don't get my panties in a wad when people disagree with me, and I like to think that is how most on this board react.

 

[rawdeal]

. . . . Anyway, I wrote a shit ton to basically say the same thing @rawdeal said

The important thing is you showed a board full of veterans who have all been there and done everything (twice) that I am not as long winded as those cranky old farts think