Forum Statistics

Threads
27,576
Posts
541,634
Members
28,554
Latest Member
pbtom
What's New?

So....when did macros stop being important?

macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,996
1,672
Thanks Bro, I appreciate the compliment and overall tone of your post.
My stricter discipline has evolved because of a desire for health and longevity rather than such a heavy emphasis on aesthetics.
In previous years, I was far more loose with macros / specific choice of foods. I have many years experience with a looser diet while training compared to my way of eating now where I place emphasis on macro ratios, feed timing, frequency of eating and abstaining (with both IT and extended fasting), avoidance of specific foods all together (other than a well earned cheat meal occasionally).
In fact even over my past few years of this transition, my cheats have switched from donuts and haagen dazs to a 10oz serving of mixed fresh fruit and/or a fast food spicy chicken sandwich.
The results differ radically most noticeably in composition and systemic inflammation. Along with other differences like water balance and recovery.
I can and do consume a larger overall weekly caloric total than the previous loose style way of eating, and have much better composition results. Running on fat (predominantly saturated fat) for fuel rather than glucose, or a combo of glucose and fat (a fat storage combo), the difference couldn’t be more pronounced.

All the above is sharing of an emphasis on the evident physical results — and for me to delve into the differences on cardiovascular / cholesterol, inflammatory factors, digestion, general metabolic and so forth benefits for health, would turn this thread a more technical in-depth direction.

Just also wanted to say I appreciate the exchange. You and I are in similar places and walked similar paths. I am approaching 50 and for me quality of life takes precedent over being the biggest or strongest.

You would be a great dude to enjoy a few beers with as I can tell you have arrived at that place you are with some thought and real experiences.

I wanted to share something that I kinda discovered (not on purpose). Even if you had asked me as recently as 3 years ago, I probably would not have felt exactly as I do now. AND part of this may be a 'bigger picture' as you allude to which brings additional complexities to the conversation. But I will share my anecdotal experience.

About 3 years ago, I was in probably the best shape of my life. I very much practiced IIFYM (or flexible dieting). I got rear ended coming into my driveway and got my spine fractured and ended up with 2-bulging and one displaced disk. It kind of was a set back for me. I was depressed and not feeling well. Truth is, I have never recovered my back. Anyway, during this time I practiced IF. But as time went on, I got to where on any given day it was a 50/50 shot if I could even get out of bed. It took me a few years to get back to where I could 'go through the motions' (which is how I describe my workouts now). I made myself feel better at times by eating like sh!t. No excuses. I was kind of depressed and eating icecream somehow makes your back not hurt as much. My diet started to get extreme. I was still roughly tracking protein, but at the end of the day, I just managed my weight with cals.

As my back got better, I never changed the way I ate, but I got to where my workouts were getting more productive. THEN came time for my physical. What is amazing to me is that eating so poorly had no impact on my blood work. In fact it improved some. Fast forward another year (still doing IF) and eating even worse, and again, my blood work was the best it has ever been. (lipid profiles...etc).

So I am a firm believer that IF really changes things about one's metabolism. I believe it has made my body much better at processing high sugar or 'junk' foods. I cant prove it of course, and I can only compare it to 10-12 years of previous blood work (many following much more 'healthy' lifestyles).

Lots of complex things going on, and I dont truly believe that a calorie is a calorie...>BUT, for most people it might as well be. I can see when lean enough, the impact of carbs. I can feel (and see) how my body reacts to large intakes of simple sugars, vs complex...etc. But for most people, it does not matter at all.

@testboner you are definitely a guy who I can tell MANY things will make large differences and I fully believe that you can manipulate effects depending on intake. But dont forget....very few people are where you are, and most will never be. So when giving advice, I do so with my audience in mind. Unfortunately @gunslinger is taking your results and thinking they would be similar to him in a very overweight state. You are in the 1% and he is the 'everyday joe'. Totally different rules apply and that is part of the 'hard' part of this thread.

Thanks for dragging my a$$ out of the shadows a little and the dialogue is great. Some great guys on here and fantastic knowledge base.
 
DungeonDweller

DungeonDweller

VIP Member
Mar 21, 2017
1,534
1,334
Did I once mention magic?
Believing in something outside of science is mysticism (Emmanual Kant, etc). Mysticism, magic, whatever.
Members: a calorie is a calorie
Law of Identity
Me: I have to lower carbs and cut sugar to get lean
Sugar is a form of carbohydrate? A carbohydrate is a carbon chain molecule with potential energy (calories)
Members: You can get in contest condition eating fried chicken and donuts
You can lose weight if you consume less calories than you need to maintain the same weight. This has been shown thousands of times, aka the Twinkie Diet, which you ignore because it hurts your case.

There are lots of studies, one even quite recent, that a cutting diet high in protein will help reduce the loss of muscle mass, even in people who do not exercise. You don't gave to use those macros, but they sure seem beneficial.
 
Last edited:
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,479
1,799
Just also wanted to say I appreciate the exchange. You and I are in similar places and walked similar paths. I am approaching 50 and for me quality of life takes precedent over being the biggest or strongest.

You would be a great dude to enjoy a few beers with as I can tell you have arrived at that place you are with some thought and real experiences.

I wanted to share something that I kinda discovered (not on purpose). Even if you had asked me as recently as 3 years ago, I probably would not have felt exactly as I do now. AND part of this may be a 'bigger picture' as you allude to which brings additional complexities to the conversation. But I will share my anecdotal experience.

About 3 years ago, I was in probably the best shape of my life. I very much practiced IIFYM (or flexible dieting). I got rear ended coming into my driveway and got my spine fractured and ended up with 2-bulging and one displaced disk. It kind of was a set back for me. I was depressed and not feeling well. Truth is, I have never recovered my back. Anyway, during this time I practiced IF. But as time went on, I got to where on any given day it was a 50/50 shot if I could even get out of bed. It took me a few years to get back to where I could 'go through the motions' (which is how I describe my workouts now). I made myself feel better at times by eating like sh!t. No excuses. I was kind of depressed and eating icecream somehow makes your back not hurt as much. My diet started to get extreme. I was still roughly tracking protein, but at the end of the day, I just managed my weight with cals.

As my back got better, I never changed the way I ate, but I got to where my workouts were getting more productive. THEN came time for my physical. What is amazing to me is that eating so poorly had no impact on my blood work. In fact it improved some. Fast forward another year (still doing IF) and eating even worse, and again, my blood work was the best it has ever been. (lipid profiles...etc).

So I am a firm believer that IF really changes things about one's metabolism. I believe it has made my body much better at processing high sugar or 'junk' foods. I cant prove it of course, and I can only compare it to 10-12 years of previous blood work (many following much more 'healthy' lifestyles).

Lots of complex things going on, and I dont truly believe that a calorie is a calorie...>BUT, for most people it might as well be. I can see when lean enough, the impact of carbs. I can feel (and see) how my body reacts to large intakes of simple sugars, vs complex...etc. But for most people, it does not matter at all.

@testboner you are definitely a guy who I can tell MANY things will make large differences and I fully believe that you can manipulate effects depending on intake. But dont forget....very few people are where you are, and most will never be. So when giving advice, I do so with my audience in mind. Unfortunately @gunslinger is taking your results and thinking they would be similar to him in a very overweight state. You are in the 1% and he is the 'everyday joe'. Totally different rules apply and that is part of the 'hard' part of this thread.

Thanks for dragging my a$$ out of the shadows a little and the dialogue is great. Some great guys on here and fantastic knowledge base.

I appreciate the exchange. And again, thank you for your compliments.
I’m glad to hear you’re doing better with progress from the mentioned back damage. That’s a LOT to go through! Perseverance and persistence accomplishes a lot and brings deeper character development with it.
REAL life shit tends to have one of 3 basic outcomes: depression, indifference/numbness, or, the choice of determined conscious growth. The decision to “go through the motions” with continued training and a confident, strong mindset is the wise choice. So congrats to you for that.

I fully understand your examples shared about diet and blood work, and with regard to the avg population vs a lifestyler subculture like ours.
Bottomline, whether the aim is for a particular achievement with body composition, strength, performance, etc, and/or health and longevity in particular — a broad understanding about the effects of varying nutrition (macros, micronutrients, tdee and so on.....) is essential to being in control of our bodies and achieving our objectives.
100% fact; those who listen to and believe the narratives of the medical industrial complex at large (overall health matters and dietary advice included) are doomed to failing, having no true understanding of their own bodily cause and effects. There’s so much profit and control (of population) designed into “studies” and the most broadly promulgated advice.

The sovereign (self aware, self led, self discovering, etc) self is about the rarest and most elusive thing in existence.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,479
1,799
Cole Robinson.
He’s a mad man, funny as fuck though, and has helped a ton of avg fat fucks lose a shit load of weight.
“Snake Juice” is just water with electrolytes.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,673
2,293
Cole Robinson.
He’s a mad man, funny as fuck though, and has helped a ton of avg fat fucks lose a shit load of weight.
“Snake Juice” is just water with electrolytes.

I let him yell at me in very small doses in order to get through that 12min, but I did get through it (albeit amazed that his voice and neck and blood vessels all held up to the rant).

It seems that what he’s saying here, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that timing is very important to body composition, but you can get results eating “straight trash” as long as you manipulate total calories in X time by fasting and leaving limited windows of eating.

I feel that it’s come full circle at this point because that indeed is exactly the point that we’ve all (sans Gunslinger) been getting at. Not one person believes that macros don’t matter at all, in general. They matter when it comes to how you feel and how you look and how you perform. But calories matter when it comes to scale.

Gunslinger is going to be awfully disappointed to find out that you posted a video that says you can eat absolute shit and still lose weight. This guy is talking straight to you, GS. Straight to you.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,479
1,799
I let him yell at me in very small doses in order to get through that 12min, but I did get through it (albeit amazed that his voice and neck and blood vessels all held up to the rant).

It seems that what he’s saying here, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that timing is very important to body composition, but you can get results eating “straight trash” as long as you manipulate total calories in X time by fasting and leaving limited windows of eating.

I feel that it’s come full circle at this point because that indeed is exactly the point that we’ve all (sans Gunslinger) been getting at. Not one person believes that macros don’t matter at all, in general. They matter when it comes to how you feel and how you look and how you perform. But calories matter when it comes to scale.

Gunslinger is going to be awfully disappointed to find out that you posted a video that says you can eat absolute shit and still lose weight. This guy is talking straight to you, GS. Straight to you.

For the most part, he’s an advocate of what I mentioned elsewhere in a post — Rather than spreading out total daily consumption into multiple meals over a lengthy eating window / hours of day, the results are far more positive if you squeeze them into one meal (OMAD).
The total calories makes no difference in comparison to the timing of the meal, and time between consumption .
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,479
1,799
I let him yell at me in very small doses in order to get through that 12min, but I did get through it (albeit amazed that his voice and neck and blood vessels all held up to the rant).

It seems that what he’s saying here, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that timing is very important to body composition, but you can get results eating “straight trash” as long as you manipulate total calories in X time by fasting and leaving limited windows of eating.

I feel that it’s come full circle at this point because that indeed is exactly the point that we’ve all (sans Gunslinger) been getting at. Not one person believes that macros don’t matter at all, in general. They matter when it comes to how you feel and how you look and how you perform. But calories matter when it comes to scale.

Gunslinger is going to be awfully disappointed to find out that you posted a video that says you can eat absolute shit and still lose weight. This guy is talking straight to you, GS. Straight to you.

You must have missed, or chose to ignore the couple studies (for the establishment narrative sake) in previous posts, that explain how / why macro type affects body composition AND overall weight gain or loss.
To reiterate, weight loss is NOT “a calorie is a calorie” and simply a matter of reducing total caloric intake = weight loss. That’s NOT reality, regardless of any pet institutional doctrine.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,479
1,799
I let him yell at me in very small doses in order to get through that 12min, but I did get through it (albeit amazed that his voice and neck and blood vessels all held up to the rant).

It seems that what he’s saying here, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that timing is very important to body composition, but you can get results eating “straight trash” as long as you manipulate total calories in X time by fasting and leaving limited windows of eating.

I feel that it’s come full circle at this point because that indeed is exactly the point that we’ve all (sans Gunslinger) been getting at. Not one person believes that macros don’t matter at all, in general. They matter when it comes to how you feel and how you look and how you perform. But calories matter when it comes to scale.

Gunslinger is going to be awfully disappointed to find out that you posted a video that says you can eat absolute shit and still lose weight. This guy is talking straight to you, GS. Straight to you.

You notice he used the term “front load” for OMAD. Squeezing the day’s total caloric intake into one feeding, instead of the same amount spread throughout the day.
Calories being the same both ways — the OMAD eater will experience more weight loss and more rapidly.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,479
1,799
To reiterate, I can eat A diet of an approximate 3000 to 3500 cal per day shit food (and even fairly “clean” food) , spread throughout the day into the evening, and I will and have gained more overall body weight, and a fatter body composition, then eating 6000 cal approximate of carnivore style, 2-3 meals per day ending early.
My body could care fucking less what “science” and studies say.
 
DungeonDweller

DungeonDweller

VIP Member
Mar 21, 2017
1,534
1,334
That's because protein takes more energy to digest. And assuming you are in a caloric deficit the high protein will help protect you from muscle loss. Science backs you up.

But you still have a ways to go if you want to catch Michael Phelps (training for the Olympics) at 12000 Calories a day, 4000 Calories for breakfast.
Michael Phelps breakfast 4000 Calories.jpg
michael-phelps-body.jpg
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
1,108
1,636
Did I once mention magic? You and a few others have told me and a couple others that what our bodies do with food is not scientifically possible.
Me: Macros are important
Members: Nope. A calorie is a calorie
Me: I have to lower carbs and cut sugar to get lean
Members: You can get in contest condition eating fried chicken and donuts
But I'm the clueless one? Right...... If that's what you are calling science I'll stick with my bro-science and magic, thanks.

WOW!!! This shit is getting old. Members? So all of us (members) said calories are calories? REALLY? Or are just trying to start arguments for the sake of arguing? I know I wasted quite a bit of my life pointing out calories are not calories and macroneutrients are very iimportant. My wife also has to lower the carbs, she is very sensative to them (lots of people are). There are some of us that are not. Which is why carb sesative peoplewho eat carbs tend to have high LDL small particles= CHD. We are all different, "the law of individuality" in full effect. Our bodies react differently to different macroneutrients and our energy needs are completely different. All energy from food is measured in calories, all foods contain macronutrients and micronutritends. ALL are importand to human survival. The fact that some one can eat twinkies and lose weight does not mean they are healthy at all youu are missing too many very important macro and micro- nutritients. Unless you are getting ready for a bodybuilding contest, being healthy should be your ONLY goal, unless you have a very good insurance policy and don't mind being hospitalized Eating friend foods and processed food (donuts) is ok once in a while but should not be part of any one's diet. No bodybuilder in their right mind is going to spend the time and money it takes to get ready for a contest and eat fried foods and donuts. To keep this up is fucking stupid.
 
Who is viewing this thread?

There are currently 0 members watching this topic

Top