Equipoise and primobolan

[sassy69]

ok so here is my dilemma..i have noticed significant hair loss (thanks to jenner i may have a solution to that), but i am disheartened by all the androgenic effects gear has left me with,...i love the body but i am not loving the lack of femininity i have experienced...

so here is my question..if i quit ( ihave been off for 9 weeks now), will i see a change in my voice, will i see a change in my hair loss/regrowth .. will i see a change in the hardening of my facial features? if i am stuck like this then to hell with it and i will at least keep a hard ass body, but if i could soften back up i would definitely like to go down that road for a while...

also if i do choose to soften up a bit, does that mean i have no choice but to lose all my definition? strength? hardness??

i am sooooooooooo on the fence...

Welcome to the dilemma of every FBB who wants to compete in Physique. I think Tammy Patnode is a great example of an FBB who has been able to downsize fairly gracefully. As a lightweight who had to beef up enough to get a pro card and then think about competing at the pro level, she has had to pack on a lot of weight. On the other side, based on how she's been able to bring in ultra tight legs all the time, I'd venture she has a good metabolism to stay lean anyway.

If you want to soften up, by definition you're going to be giving up a balance of size & fullness. Definition is going to dependent on balancing the muscle loss w/ the fat loss. This is different from cutting for competition where you are all about preserving your lean muscle mass and relying on the chemistry to keep you tight. If the whole reason you lift is because you love it, and then that's the part that you have to alter to drop the size, you may find it very hard. I've been dealing with this challenge for over a year and a half now. Its a huge mindfuck for me because I get a lot of satisfaction and get my "challenge fix" from lifting big. I also get a lot of stress outlet as well as pride in my accomplishments. I like to stand out as a balls-to-the-wall lifter and to look different. For me to drop muscle, I have to switch to high rep stuff. Because of the 30 yrs of wear & tear on my body from lifting, I can't do a lot of HIIT-type stuff w/o just asking for a trip to the physical therapist or surgery. That means I just have to accept that I have to work on my endurance / conditioning, lift light / high rep and do all the things that are completely opposite of how I measured "progress" and "pride in effort". But there's no other way for me. Once I lose the mass - be it both fat & muscle, I will be golden - it will be back to the same type of prep - but making that simple body composition transition sucks. If you are able to reduce your protein intake, increase your cardio - you can burn the size off but keep the fat off too. Once you're at a point of muscle mass that you want to maintain, frankly you can probably do it w/ simple diet and training. But if you want the harder look, you can follow the same AAS protocol, just with lighter stuff. The balancing then becomes NOT growing muscle, but also keeping the fat down as well.

Hope that helps.

 

[mrsr05]

Welcome to the dilemma of every FBB who wants to compete in Physique. I think Tammy Patnode is a great example of an FBB who has been able to downsize fairly gracefully. As a lightweight who had to beef up enough to get a pro card and then think about competing at the pro level, she has had to pack on a lot of weight. On the other side, based on how she's been able to bring in ultra tight legs all the time, I'd venture she has a good metabolism to stay lean anyway.

If you want to soften up, by definition you're going to be giving up a balance of size & fullness. Definition is going to dependent on balancing the muscle loss w/ the fat loss. This is different from cutting for competition where you are all about preserving your lean muscle mass and relying on the chemistry to keep you tight. If the whole reason you lift is because you love it, and then that's the part that you have to alter to drop the size, you may find it very hard. I've been dealing with this challenge for over a year and a half now. Its a huge mindfuck for me because I get a lot of satisfaction and get my "challenge fix" from lifting big. I also get a lot of stress outlet as well as pride in my accomplishments. I like to stand out as a balls-to-the-wall lifter and to look different. For me to drop muscle, I have to switch to high rep stuff. Because of the 30 yrs of wear & tear on my body from lifting, I can't do a lot of HIIT-type stuff w/o just asking for a trip to the physical therapist or surgery. That means I just have to accept that I have to work on my endurance / conditioning, lift light / high rep and do all the things that are completely opposite of how I measured "progress" and "pride in effort". But there's no other way for me. Once I lose the mass - be it both fat & muscle, I will be golden - it will be back to the same type of prep - but making that simple body composition transition sucks. If you are able to reduce your protein intake, increase your cardio - you can burn the size off but keep the fat off too. Once you're at a point of muscle mass that you want to maintain, frankly you can probably do it w/ simple diet and training. But if you want the harder look, you can follow the same AAS protocol, just with lighter stuff. The balancing then becomes NOT growing muscle, but also keeping the fat down as well.

Hope that helps.

sass, thats pretty much it in a nutshell... i CRAVE the heavy lifting.. i, too, like looking different.. to me nothing is sexier than a woman with muscles..

i have been reading your thread about your journey to physique... i totally get it...i am already noticing some softening in my face and body (in a good way) but i would be lying if i said my diet was on point right now..

i started running again and it has helped with the reduction of size... i do miss how hard my legs were though.. still cut but softer...grrrrr...traps and delts still on point which goes a long way in maintaining my symmetrical appearance...

guess it always comes back to finding ones balance... lol.. im actually getting that tattooed today!! its all about the balance

thanks sass.. as usual your knowledge and experience give me peace..

 

[sassy69]

sass, thats pretty much it in a nutshell... i CRAVE the heavy lifting.. i, too, like looking different.. to me nothing is sexier than a woman with muscles..

i have been reading your thread about your journey to physique... i totally get it...i am already noticing some softening in my face and body (in a good way) but i would be lying if i said my diet was on point right now..

i started running again and it has helped with the reduction of size... i do miss how hard my legs were though.. still cut but softer...grrrrr...traps and delts still on point which goes a long way in maintaining my symmetrical appearance...

guess it always comes back to finding ones balance... lol.. im actually getting that tattooed today!! its all about the balance

thanks sass.. as usual your knowledge and experience give me peace..

Yea - I would say just commit to the body recomp phase - when you've dropped some of the mass, you can focus on the tightening up again. Its hard when what motivates you is the big lifting and the end result. Its just different - but if you can get thru the part about just dropping the muscle, the rest is the same. That's the part I've been stumbing with. Ironically, doing nothing goes a long way towards dropping mass. To illustrate - I have competed within 2 lb of 150 since 2007. I've probably had 5 lb of water wt I could've dumped, but generally that's telling me that's how far down my body was able to go w/o giving up muscle. I'm currently at 152 lb and no where near 7% bodyfat. In fact I barely fit into my size 6 pants - these are usually my starting point during a competition cut - but its usually more like at 15 lb heavier. Pretty obvious muscle weighs more than fat but denser.

If you're able to run and do those things that allow you to drop muscle and fat, then run with it - you'll get to that smaller proportion faster. I have a lot of trouble w/ HIIT anything so I'm struggling w/ it. I'm doing a boot camp for the next month just to get to the point where I can do basic calisthenics w/o keeling over and dying. Its tough. I have to wear knee sleeves to accommodate the quicker motions but I'm now finding my ankles are a tweaking joint as well. I think my plantar fasciitis is the source of that issue. Anyway - its humbling as fuck, but I find I can generally adapt within a week or two. I'm at the end of Week 1. Now just gotta keep the "diet mentality" in place and consistent cardio. There's no reason I cant' be down 10 lb in the next couple weeks. I'm keeping in mind how I expect to look at the end of this. When I did my first show in 2000, I think I had a great shape for Physique. I now have a 47 yr old ass, so that's going to take some work, but otherwise, just keeping an eye on the prize because I know its possible. Nothing depresses me more than hearing people my age accepting how they look because they are "old". Fuck that. Its not true and there's no reason to accept it. I own more bikinis now than I ever have - I just need a month or two to be presentable!

 

[shan]

While I am not the size of a bb, I definitely feel for those of you who trained and worked hard to add that mass...and are now finding you need to downsize, it sucks really, but that seems to be where the sport is headed. I am rooting for both of you, hope you can find happiness with the change (both mentally and physically) and know as hard as it is, getting where you want to be is so rewarding it will be worth it.

 

[Vick]

sass, thats pretty much it in a nutshell... i CRAVE the heavy lifting.. i, too, like looking different.. to me nothing is sexier than a woman with muscles..

i have been reading your thread about your journey to physique... i totally get it...i am already noticing some softening in my face and body (in a good way) but i would be lying if i said my diet was on point right now..

i started running again and it has helped with the reduction of size... i do miss how hard my legs were though.. still cut but softer...grrrrr...traps and delts still on point which goes a long way in maintaining my symmetrical appearance...

guess it always comes back to finding ones balance... lol.. im actually getting that tattooed today!! its all about the balance

thanks sass.. as usual your knowledge and experience give me peace..

I was just reading through all your posts and was just thinking why doesn't she just do powerlifting which would allow for the more feminine water retention. I think the cutting and hardening, especially with DHT based gear(primo,winstrol,var,mast,proviron,halo,test,ect), is why the masculinization is so pronounced. With powerlifting you could take advantage of the more anabolic than androgenic steroids that also aromatize easily like Anadrol,Dbol,M1T,ect. One that comes to mind that men tend to avoid but has shown a lot of potential on paper is MENT from GP(Trestolone Acetate). I've never advised on a cycle for a female before, but always like a new challenge and was just thinking that a test base may not be required because women don't need the same level as men to function. I'm not sure if any of this info will work for you, just thinking out loud.

 

[narcissus79]

It's interesting, my partner used eq, got all the vascualrity, strength gains, good muscular gains, but never got the crazy appetite...

She did love the stuff though, and boy did it make her "hoohaa" sensitive!

 

[letmegetmuscles]

They are basically the same thing. EQ is MUCH cheaper than Primo, gives basically the same benefits or BETTER...

...BUT...if you get sides from EQ (I do) then it will stay with you for a good bit where as with Primo there are little to no sides and it is a much faster acting compound. The biggest issue here is that Primo is OTC and EQ is black market.

Where is Primo OTC??? HUH???

 

[Prettypowerlifter]

I can attest to whats in bold 100%. I'm on my second primo cycle 7 weeks in...@ 100mg a week along with 50mg of mast. I upped the mast to 75mg but had to go back down as I started to have said voice issues (which I had last time). As for hairloss, I learned from last cycle and use the appropriate shampoo now.

I'm liking the results so far!

Appropriate shampoo? Please share! I've used orals only...anavar and winnie, and have experienced extreme thinning