Welcome to The Iron Den
Where strength athletes share techniques for building muscle, burning fat and the proper use of anabolc steroids to help you meet your fitness goals.
...then you have come to the right place!
we will try to help you with your problem.
WHO SHOULD DO INJECTABLES
Ladies that have tried at least one mild oral steroid and now wish to add more mass to their bodies.
The chances of contracting side effect, and potential virilization, are higher with injectables than with anavar. anavar is the mildest steroid for ladies without a doubt...too bad it is not in an injectable form.
Most common sides seen with the ladies are as follows and in no particular order. Some negatives can also be positives as you will note below
NEGATIVE SIDES......Ance, oily skin, clitoral enlargement beyond minimal, aggression, hair loss..male style, hair growth especially on upper lip and chin, hair loss, darkened hair growth, quickened hair growth on legs and arms, lowering of voice tone, distruption of normal menstral cycle, aggression.
MOST COMMON NEGATIVE SIDES
Oily skin, some hair growth, a little acne, some alteration in normal menstral cycle, minimal voice tone lowering, darkening body hair
PRECURSER TO VOICE LOWERING
If you get a squeaky voice, hoarse throat or voice, scratchy thoat, raspy throat or voice, a cough, or any ache in the throat then stop the steroid immediately as these are common warning signs of voice alterations
PERMANENT NEGATIVE SIDES
Voice lowering may improve immediately after a cycle A LITTLE but will NEVER return to normal. Some girls are affected minimally and still sound like a women and others end up sounding like a man if they continue with the steroid. Clit growth remains...androgenic swelling goes away but the GROWTH remains. Some long time and heavy users have grown a little penis(TRUE!)
Feelings of well being, increased energy, decreased recovery time, aggression, heightened sex drive with small amount of clit enlargement, Muscle gain, strength gain, some reports of decreases in estrogenic fat ie"upper legs, butt, upper arms, abdomen.
PERMANENT POSITIVE SIDES
Mass and strength will largely remain IF you train and eat properly post cycle. Better sex, due to clit growth, but sex DRIVE returns to normal except for the possible increase in sex drive as a result of heightened enjoyment.
Ladies normally do not see an alteration in total serum cholesterol and hdl levels due to the fact that minimal doses are used. This is a big deal as this is the worst side in men IMO.
Hair loss, if any, is very minimal due to small doses.
Your voice will surely lower, in time, and sooner than later, if you go above 50mg of ANY injectable per week. It may even lower on 50mg/week or less in 4-6weeks but it is not that common.
Pure anabolics vs androgenic anabolics.
IMO there are only two injectables that are nearly pure anabolics and they are nandrolone and primobolin. They are somewhat androgenic but one could classify them as anabolics.
The more androgenic the hormone the greater are your chances for sides including virilization, but the greater your chances are for great muscle growth. The most androgenic hormones are Test and tren and then perhaps winny, although some would disagree with me on the winny.
Used by many ladies as it, along with nandrolone, is probably the least androgenic roid. CAREFUL....primo is in the long acting ester enenthate and it clears slowly. Many ladies have experienced very bad sides from this roid due to the fact that they take too much per week (above 50-75mg). INJECTABLE primo is not our drug of choice because it is long acting and if sides come on that you don't like then you have to ride them out until the roid clears your system and by the time it does permamnent sides may have set in. Daeo's wife had a bad experience with primo.
If you start low you shouldn't have too much trouble, if any, IMO as it is quite mild androgenically. Just remember though that it will not give quick muscle gains at all. The gains seen are usually quality muscle built at a slow steady rate. If more and quicker gains are needed then I would recommend nandrolone.
WARNING. Primobolin is faked all the time so you better know your source VERY well or you may get test cyp or another cheaper compound! All 50mg ampules are safe as none have yet to be duplicated . Greek primo is safe. They are in a clear glass ampule and printed with green lettering and are 100mg/ml. Be sure to look for the Greek ID sticker on its box just in case. Turkish primo is safe as well.
Schering has recently altered the look of their Spanish 100mg amps. They now have clear glass with a paper label and three rings on the amp tip, one is yellow and two red. Fakes have a larger than normal blue dot on the amp head.....get help from from someone that has used primo before for identification purposes.
#1 choice for the serious lifteng female!
Bill Llewellyn's first choice for ladies as he feels it is the injectable with the least androgenic affects, and that includes primo. Vikingwife did 20mg every three days with no sides except increased sex drive. There is at least one other women on the board that loves nandrolone very much. Will give better muscle gains than primo.
Durabolin is an excellent choice. Hayrian Biologicals makes a high quality nandrolone phenylprop that is cheaper than durabolin and come in 100mg/ml 2ml vials. nandrolone Decanate is not recommended as a first time choice as it is a very long acting ester.
Personally Realgains thinks that this roid in the Phenylprop ester would give the best gains to least sides ratio. It is superior to primo due to its short acting nature and its better muscle building properties.
nandrolone is the easiest at the scalp and causes the least hair loss of all steroids so if female thinning runs in your family then perhaps this roid is best for you.
Personally Realgains thinks that this roid would soon become more popular than primo if it was more readily available. Availability is picking up however!
Boldenone undecylenate (eq)
About as potent as nandrolone but is not recommended for a first time cycle as it is in a long acting ester. Ttokkyo labs produce a good cheap product.
May be slightly more androgenic than nandrolone but will give no better gains than nandrolone.
As wilth men the ladies either love winny or hate it. I can't explain this but it is true.
We do not like winny although many ladies do. winny is less androgenic than test but more than primo and probably nandrolone too.
I have heard too many negative reports on the harshness of winny especially as it relates to lowering the voice. This could be dose related as winny is not as androgenic as test....yet females may respond differently. Use the winny with small particle size so you can inject with a 27guage pin. Do no more than 70mg per week and less is best. The best winny IMO are made by Zambon ES,I 1ml amps. Another good source and cheaper is made by Ttokkyo labs. These are the only ones that you can both trust and that also have small enough crystals that will inject through a 27 guage pin. Do not trust any other European or American product as they are highly faked.
Not a foreign compound to the female body. Small amounts are produced in the ovaries and adrenal glands.
. Not overly androgenic IN SMALL DOSES, although it is more androgenic than any roid listed(tren may be just as bad or worse) Test gives the best muscle and strength gains. Gives sence of well being and energy more so than the others, increases sex drive more so than the others.
Many many ladies love to use low dose test. Daeo's wife has had good experiences with test and he has written much about this on the forum. Warlobo's wife also liked test as have others.
testosterone Propionate is recommended for two reasons. Firstly it has a short half life so it will clear your system quickly after you stop should sides come on that do not agree with you. Secondly it is not as highly faked as test Cypionate or enanthate.
Brovel makes a pretty decent product at 100mg/ml. This is a favorite of Quadsweep "The Voice of Reason"
Virormone by Ferring is probably the best available however.
I doubt that there is a pro, or near pro, that doesn't use test a fair bit.
Very cheap for a female cycle, especially if you switch to test cyp in the 10cc vails, after you find the dose of test that you can tolerate.
Some ladies do use this very powerful roid but we DO NOT recommend it. tren is more powerful per mg than any other steroid and as such accurate tiny does are hard to measure. It is at least as androgenic as test and maybe more so IMO.
If you do use it then use VERY little and never more than 25mg per week.
ESTERS AND DOSE SCHEDULES.
An ester is a compound made up of hydrogen and carbon atoms. They are added to pure steroids or testosterone in order to slow the release of the active agent. Some esters have a short chain of hydrogen and carbon and others have longer chains. The longer the chain the longer the time release of the steroid.
prop is a short ester and Decanate is a long chain ester.
NOTE: 50mg of nandrolne in a phenylprop ester has more actual steroid than 50mg of nandrolone in the decanate ester as some of the 50mg weight is taken up by the longer ester. THE DIFFERENCE IS MINIMAL! Never let anyone tell you that one type of steroid is more powerful than another type of the same steroid. These are myths . There is a myth that test Cyp is more powerful than test enanthate and this is a myth. In actuality the enanthate ester has one less carbon atom and 50 mg of the test will have a tiny amount more test than 50mg of cyp.
HOW TO DOSE.
Most conservative.....Inject 50 mg of steroid or testosterone once and then let it completely clear the system. ie: test prop 50mg then wait a week before doing another injection. OR...Test Cyp 50mg and then wait for two weeks before injecting again. This system will give you some results and is very safe in regard to sides.
The next method is recommended by Bill Llewellyn and others. In this system one injects a dose and then lets it partially clear the system. It is thought that this clearance will not allow androgens to build up over time which of course can cause sides and virilization. This sytem will give better results and liitle sides. Examples are 25- 50mg test prop every 5-7 days or 50mg of test cyp every 10 days. This system is favored by huckleberryFinaplix and Realgains.
The last system will give best results. This system is favored by many and requires injecting AT LEAST as frequently as a male.
In this system you try to inject at least twice per half life. This keeps hormone spikes to a minimum. These more even blood levels result in better gains. There is also some evidence to suggest that spiking hormone levels cause more sides.
Here is an example of this system...test prop 15mg every second day or 20 mg every third day. Also test cyp 20-25 mg twice per week or every forth day at most.
If you are a top level competitor then this is the system for you.
Simply put the longer you are "on" the greater are your chances for virilization. An 8 week cycle is a good start. latter cycles can be longer once you get a feel for the hormone. A long low dose cycle of 12 weeks or more can be great.
DOSE PER 7 DAYS!!
Winny 50-70 mg 7-10mg per day INJECT DAILY for best results
These doses will give you great gains with little chance of serious sides. If you are top level competitor then obviously these doses are quite moderate. I would not recommend any women go much above these doses unless they are darn serious about being competitive!
You must use an insulin syringe in order to get an accurate dose.
You can use a 27 gauge hypo to inject since you will be injecting very little and the insulin syringe, being tiny, gives great injection power. With a 27 pin you won't feel a thing. Remember to rotate injection sites...upper outer glute/hip and outer thigh.
We do not recommend that you use more than one hormone at a time unless your are a top competitor. If you do stack your voice will almost certainly lower and other sides will be worse.
If you MUST stack than we would recommend using a small dose of anavar with the injectable at perhaps 10mg per day, 5mg in the am and 5 mg in the pm.
While trying to increase mass while on injectables you must increase your protein intake to about 2 grams per pound of body weight. If you do not do this then your gains will be likely be less . I recommend a good low fat whey protein shake betwee three regular meals. Some people seem to get great gains with less but it is safer to go higher. Caloric intake also needs to go and the increased protein intake will help.
You can get good strength gains ,and some muscle gain, while on anavar, and not eat that much in the way of protein or calories, but this is not the case when trying to build some serious muscle.
If you are a naturally muscular mesomorphic female that needs to shave her legs frequently then you may wish to stick to the mild orals such as primo and anavar as you will be more prone to sides. Sometimes the slightly built that are hairless to nearly hairless can get away with more steroid use without much in the way of sides if doses are kept reasonable.
Best of luck to you all and keep us posted.
lots of great info....May be researching more in the future...
you know, none of those sound worth it to me. i guess that is the good thing about not having any specific goals
Good post Ms. Wetback. not sure i have ever seen something this thorough for women before. Have one for GH perhaps?
is the info on the 1st post current? last time I checked, the Greek primo with clear glass and green writing was discontinued. if they're still around, I'd love to get my hand on those as I had the best result from it. I agree with NPP being the 1 st choice for females, it's least androgenic and it's a derivative of estrogen, unlike winni and primo which are derived from DHT, no no.... also, if one was to come down with an unexpected androgenic sides, get on an aldactone. it's a diuretic with an anti-androgenic properties and should help lessen the sides until the injectible tapers off.
nandrolone greatly increase RBC production, more so even than EPO. it would probably be great if one had anemia issues.
My wife has used EQ, Var, Test (topical), and GH all. Great results but on some bad bad bad advice we dosed her EQ too high and although the sex was fantastic she has some major voice and clit changes. My wife is a very small lady but strong as an ox for her size.
She wants to something again but am not sure what to use.
She wants to get leaner and stronger.
Long term EPO looses it's effect , Use androgens like nandrolone and they can lower the dose of EPO for a better result.
I like science so I had to elaborate a bit ! lmao sorry, peace
Just wanted to mention that more sources are starting to carry Primobolan attached to a Di-propionate ester. This ester has essentially the same half life as a propionate ester (best guess is approxiamtely 2 days). This may be a good option for the ladies as it would both kick in and clear your system quickly. You'll know whether you like it or not in likely just a week and it's gone very rapidly, especially at the low doses typically taken by females.
Primobolan acetate has been the second most common form of primobolan injectable I've seen over the years (Enan is most popular). But, when attached to an acetate ester, the solution seems to be pretty uncomfortable about a day after injection and very painful if dosed higher than 50mg/ml without the use of additional, sometimes harsh solvents. However, I personally have used the Di-propionate dosed at 100 mg/ml with no issues whatsoever. So, an E3D injection of 25mg or less for a woman I'd imagine would produce at least decent results.
BTW, it's mostly a myth that propionate and di-propionate esters HAVE TO be pinned EOD. You can pin them twice a week or simply 3x per week (MWF and skip the weekend is the most convenient). Blood levels will be more stable with EOD pinning, but that's not necessarily what you're aiming for with the smaller doses that women generally use. Also, for smaller dosing protocols, the overall levels will not rise that high and thus level off slower and smoother than someone taking 750mg EW of the same drug. So, it's quite possible to run twice weekly injections of primobolan dipropionate with good success IMO. Now we just need a volunteer to run a log for our ladies
Okay so what should we try?
My wife eats PERFECT and when I mean perfect I mean perfect. She trains harder than any guy I know. She has several years of experience and wants a little more edge.
She is a small lady 115 / 5'2" but very muscular.
She benches 165+ for reps ( I know not strong like RR, but better than most her size).
We have tried Var 10mg ed for 6 weeks with little change.
We have tried EQ HIGH dose based on an unnamed owner of anther board that most people know hate and he kind of ****ed her up with the advice.
She would like to try Winny but it makes me nervous with sides as noted above.
I have NPP?? What would be the benefit? what dose? She would like to be leaner and stronger.
All advice welcome.