Welcome to The Iron Den


Where strength athletes share techniques for building muscle, burning fat and the proper use of anabolc steroids to help you meet your fitness goals.


  •  » Bodybuilding Training and Nutrition
  •  » Weight Loss and Losing Fat
  •  » Powerlifting and Strongman Training
  •  » Anabolic Steroids Questions & Answers

...then you have come to the right place!


we will try to help you with your problem.



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Woman, calcium and bones

  1. #1
    TID Lady Member AllTheWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    4,269
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 370 Times in 298 Posts

    Woman, calcium and bones

    i want to start off with saying that this is not a scientific paper but rather just some thoughts after a discussion with my mom. she is 64 years old and has significant osteoarthritis and fibromyalgia. due to the fibromyalgia she has not been very active for over 30 years. she has recently been undergoing a bunch of doctor exams for spine problems and pain in her hands and hips.

    i was speaking with her this morning and she was reading me the radiologist reports on her numerous x rays. it stated several times that she had significant osteopenia. i told her that that was bone loss and was the reason for taking calcium to prevent it. she told me that she had been taking caltrate for years based on the recommendation of my aunt who is an internal medicine specialist. she then wondered why if she was taking calcium supplementation would her bones be losing calcium.

    i am a common sense sort of person. i am a big believer in research but it has to have some practical purpose to it for me to remain interested in it. in my profession it is important to be able to relate things in a practical way that people understand.

    calcium is very very important for bodily function. one, it obviously is needed for boney growth, remodeling and support but it is also very important for muscle contraction. when one doesnt have enough calcium they will go into a tetnic state and have severe muscle tremors. muscle can not contract without calcium.



    Summary of Events in Muscle Contraction and Relaxation

    Arrival of motoneuron action potential
    Synaptic transmission at neuromuscular junction
    Action potential propagates along sarcolemma
    Hypopolarization of T tubules
    Ca++ released into sarcoplasm from sarcoplasmic reticulum
    Ca++ bound by troponin

    Cooperative configurational change in troponin and tropomyosin
    Release of inhibition of myosin-ATPase
    Link between thick and thin filaments, swivel of myosin head
    Tension exerted
    Shortening by sliding filament
    Ca++ removed from sarcoplasm
    Mg++ATP bound by actinomyosin
    Cross-bridges disconnected
    Actinomyosin-ATPase inhibited
    Active tension disappears
    Series elastic elements restore resting length

    Chapter 14 - Muscle Contraction


    another important thing in calcium regulation is vitamin D.

    Vitamin D promotes calcium absorption in the gut and maintains adequate serum calcium and phosphate concentrations to enable normal mineralization of bone and to prevent hypocalcemic tetany. It is also needed for bone growth and bone remodeling by osteoblasts and osteoclasts [1,2]. Without sufficient vitamin D, bones can become thin, brittle, or misshapen. Vitamin D sufficiency prevents rickets in children and osteomalacia in adults [1]. Together with calcium, vitamin D also helps protect older adults from osteoporosis.
    Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet: Vitamin D

    so we have to have adequate calcium and vitamin D for bones to function properly and be healthy. so why is it that my mother has low bone density even though she has been taking caltrate which has both calcium and vit D?

    my theory- in race horses there is a condition that very commonly affects young horses in training called bucked shins. it is fracture of the cannon bone, the cannon bone is the long bone between the horses foot and its knee. this occurs because as the horses are being conditioned they are often galloped around the track to get their lungs and muscles in shape. this puts many loading cycles on the bone. the more the horse gallops the more stress on the bone and the bone starts remodeling to hold up to the applied forces. the problem is that as soon as the horse has its first work or first race where they are asked to run, the bone then develops microfractures. it is very painful and often interrupts training. this happens because bone remodels to the forces put on it. these horses bones have remodeled for the load of a gallop but not the load of a run which is significantly more forceful. so how does this relate to my mom? haha well, because of the fibromyalgia, my mom has been pretty seditary for over 30 years. she sits at the computer most of the day and any work she does is not heavy or forceful in any way. she might have brief moments of lifting something but overall, she doesnt do much of anything like that. her bones have no expectation of any kind of force. because of this, the body is not taking any calcium to remodel her bones and make them stronger, why should it, there is no stimulus for it to do so. so even though she is taking the calcium her body isnt using it to make her bones stronger, it is using if for muscle contraction and then probably dumping the rest of it. i imagine it is also still drawing calcium from her bones to utilize as well, thereby causing further osteopenia. the vertebra in her back are deteriorating as well as her discs. but never has she done any lifting to signal her back and the bones that make it up to remodel and get stronger.

    now this is just my common sense way of tying it all together. im not saying it is right but it makes sense to me. so why am i even writing this? well, to me it just confirms that every woman out there should be doing some sort of physical exercise and lifting weights should be part of it. not that they have to be out there building muscle and trying to get huge but rather they should be doing it to apply stress to their bones so that their bones stay active and continue to keep up on its calcium absorption.
    Last edited by AllTheWay; 05-17-2011 at 06:40 PM.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AllTheWay For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Administrator admin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    The Iron Den
    Posts
    3,222
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 745 Times in 361 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    Great article ATW! I had no idea you were a writer.

  4. #3
    TID Lady Member AllTheWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    4,269
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 370 Times in 298 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    Great article ATW! I had no idea you were a writer.
    LOL im not! i was asked to boost the female section on another site so i have been just writing up random thoughts that float through my head when i can catch them

    i know nothing about AAS in women so i ramble on about other things that i know or think about us women!

  5. #4
    Strongwoman Moderator Rottenrogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Under your bed
    Posts
    3,726
    Thanks
    203
    Thanked 467 Times in 347 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    Valid points.And it makes sense to me. I love hearing people tell me how bad for me heavy lifting is. I intend to stay active until I no longer can.While strongman may be a bit extreme there are other options when I can no longer do this.I will easily be in my 60's before I stop,if I have my way about it .
    My plan of action is to drop down to NAHA which is a mixture of strongman and highland games with a bit lighter of weights.Or continue on in the womens masters class. I will not go easily into these classes though.
    Activity is the key ! I am heavy and all my bloodwork comes back great.my pulse and blood pressure are athetic .For someone my size i should be diabetic with high blood pressure and a list of problems.

  6. #5
    Brofessor Moderator PillarofBalance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Under a Rock
    Posts
    9,271
    Thanks
    708
    Thanked 1,256 Times in 951 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    To be honest I clicked on this thread cause I saw women and bones in the title... Thought it was on Get Some's thread but I'm glad I did. Good write up.

    This sure as hell is another case for heavy ass deadlifts! lol - But I wonder in your mother's case with the fibromyalgia how would she have been able to add weight loads to her frame to get this effect?

    I've been working pretty hard trying to get my mother to start using some sort of resistance training. She was very overweight, was diagnosed as a Type II diabetic and was given metformin... No longer takes the metformin, has lost a TON of weight, eats perfectly and goes for walks every day. But still no weights.

  7. #6
    TID Lady Member AllTheWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    4,269
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 370 Times in 298 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    Quote Originally Posted by Rottenrogue View Post
    Valid points.And it makes sense to me. I love hearing people tell me how bad for me heavy lifting is. I intend to stay active until I no longer can.While strongman may be a bit extreme there are other options when I can no longer do this.I will easily be in my 60's before I stop,if I have my way about it .
    My plan of action is to drop down to NAHA which is a mixture of strongman and highland games with a bit lighter of weights.Or continue on in the womens masters class. I will not go easily into these classes though.
    Activity is the key ! I am heavy and all my bloodwork comes back great.my pulse and blood pressure are athetic .For someone my size i should be diabetic with high blood pressure and a list of problems.
    you are so very right! and i agree wholeheartedly! i intend to still be working and working out 40 years from now

  8. #7
    TID Lady Member AllTheWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    4,269
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 370 Times in 298 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillarofbalance View Post
    To be honest I clicked on this thread cause I saw women and bones in the title... Thought it was on Get Some's thread but I'm glad I did. Good write up.

    This sure as hell is another case for heavy ass deadlifts! lol - But I wonder in your mother's case with the fibromyalgia how would she have been able to add weight loads to her frame to get this effect?

    I've been working pretty hard trying to get my mother to start using some sort of resistance training. She was very overweight, was diagnosed as a Type II diabetic and was given metformin... No longer takes the metformin, has lost a TON of weight, eats perfectly and goes for walks every day. But still no weights.
    LOL at the reason you came. hahaha it did have calcium in the title

    one of the things they recommend for fibromyalgia now is exercise and lifting. but when my mom was diagnosed 30 years ago, they had no idea what or why or anything. she was in so much pain that she didnt really do anything. it hurt her for us kids to even touch her! the doctors pretty much told her to not do anything. she has so many other problems now that she will never even try it because it will hurt her more even though eventually it will hurt her less. if that makes any sense.

  9. #8
    Weasel Hunting Moderator SHINE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    [[[-------]]]
    Posts
    5,044
    Thanks
    553
    Thanked 529 Times in 426 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    IS she taking any hormones ? and I hope No nasty primarin. Than IMO
    Your mother most likey needs to be on HRT to replace estrogen levels or take rolaxifene a SERM that mimics estorgen and it's effects on bone mass. Without no or little estrogen levels womens bodies have a hard time absorbing calcium. Good point on the vite D-3, all your good hrt docs add this as part of treatment.

    Your right the exercise will be a must to!

    If you dig through this web page you will see the mention of serms, Raloxifene is one of the more popular ones theese days at the clinics. Most tolerate this drug quite well. Thing I like about this one is it helps to balance out cholest levels as well.

    This is only a sujestion and I'm not saying this is the total solution to her problem but well worth looking into.

    Osteoporosis Symptoms, Causes & Treatments | Healthline

    And a bit about Raloxifene

    http://www.aafp.org/afp/990915ap/1131.html

    Peace.
    Last edited by SHINE; 05-18-2011 at 01:03 AM.

  10. #9
    TID Lady Member AllTheWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    4,269
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 370 Times in 298 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    Quote Originally Posted by SHINE View Post
    IS she taking any hormones ? and I hope No nasty primarin. Than IMO
    Your mother most likey needs to be on HRT to replace estrogen levels or take rolaxifene a SERM that mimics estorgen and it's effects on bone mass. Without no or little estrogen levels womens bodies have a hard time absorbing calcium. Good point on the vite D-3, all your good hrt docs add this as part of treatment.

    Your right the exercise will be a must to!

    If you dig through this web page you will see the mention of serms, Raloxifene is one of the more popular ones theese days at the clinics. Most tolerate this drug quite well. Thing I like about this one is it helps to balance out cholest levels as well.

    This is only a sujestion and I'm not saying this is the total solution to her problem but well worth looking into.

    Osteoporosis Symptoms, Causes & Treatments | Healthline

    And a bit about Raloxifene

    Raloxifene: A Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator - September 15, 1999 - American Academy of Family Physicians

    Peace.
    she isnt taking any hormones. knowing my mother, she is probably taking some homeopathic stuff that is supposed to act like estrogen. she wont ever do HRT *big sigh* i agree with you that it is definately what she needs but there is no way i could convince her to do such a thing or see a qualified HRT doc. now if she read it in some silly article on the internet, than maybe she would.

    i will read the article on estrogen and bone. there is something rolling around in the back of my head about hormones and bone developement that i will have to ponder on for awhile to see if i can remember it right and put it all into perspective.

    thanks for the info!

  11. #10
    VIP Member ITAWOLF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    bama
    Posts
    310
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    there is alot as of late on cal & vit d3 ---
    matter of fact the women journal has a write up in it now
    maybe u can get her to pop some cal & d3
    cvs has a sale now ..buy 1 get | free...just picked up 4 the other day...since ive had hipreplacement & a glass rod down my femur ive been taking cal and vit d ...now changed to d3 ... my ortho is always amazed by the amount of cal i have built up around where my femur was blasted..

    i wish u luck with mom....my dad is hardheaded and im in the same boat that ur in (grab a paddle-lol) i cant seem to talk him into taking anything ...not even androgel

  12. #11
    TID Lady VIP dangerouscurves's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Emerald city
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    187
    Thanked 211 Times in 155 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    my doc also said with the calcium, and d3 I needed to add magnesium to it to have proper absorption.... but thank you for this you are very well spoken/written!
    there is a lot of info about woman's bone deterioration especially with menopause, and I have seen the science articles about women using TRT to rebuild, and correct bone loss, there is quite a bit with HGH use being a super positive with the liver creating male liver enzymes in women and this effectively reversing or stopping the cause of woman's bone loss... I intend on using GH for my entire life for these simple reasons ... MY mom was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, but has overcome it with a healthy diet and walking/losing weight and desperately needs to learn how to lift weights but she at least knows this ! Hopefully later this month I will have a chance to train her

  13. #12
    VIP Member myosaurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    371
    Thanks
    55
    Thanked 55 Times in 38 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    my fiancè is a RD and recommends calcium citrate above all other form, combined with vitamin D and taken at night before bed for best absorption.

  14. #13
    TID Lady Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    Quote Originally Posted by AllTheWay View Post
    i want to start off with saying that this is not a scientific paper but rather just some thoughts after a discussion with my mom. she is 64 years old and has significant osteoarthritis and fibromyalgia. due to the fibromyalgia she has not been very active for over 30 years. she has recently been undergoing a bunch of doctor exams for spine problems and pain in her hands and hips.

    i was speaking with her this morning and she was reading me the radiologist reports on her numerous x rays. it stated several times that she had significant osteopenia. i told her that that was bone loss and was the reason for taking calcium to prevent it. she told me that she had been taking caltrate for years based on the recommendation of my aunt who is an internal medicine specialist. she then wondered why if she was taking calcium supplementation would her bones be losing calcium.

    i am a common sense sort of person. i am a big believer in research but it has to have some practical purpose to it for me to remain interested in it. in my profession it is important to be able to relate things in a practical way that people understand.

    calcium is very very important for bodily function. one, it obviously is needed for boney growth, remodeling and support but it is also very important for muscle contraction. when one doesnt have enough calcium they will go into a tetnic state and have severe muscle tremors. muscle can not contract without calcium.

    Summary of Events in Muscle Contraction and Relaxation

    Arrival of motoneuron action potential
    Synaptic transmission at neuromuscular junction
    Action potential propagates along sarcolemma
    Hypopolarization of T tubules
    Ca++ released into sarcoplasm from sarcoplasmic reticulum
    Ca++ bound by troponin

    Cooperative configurational change in troponin and tropomyosin
    Release of inhibition of myosin-ATPase
    Link between thick and thin filaments, swivel of myosin head
    Tension exerted
    Shortening by sliding filament
    Ca++ removed from sarcoplasm
    Mg++ATP bound by actinomyosin
    Cross-bridges disconnected
    Actinomyosin-ATPase inhibited
    Active tension disappears
    Series elastic elements restore resting length

    Chapter 14 - Muscle Contraction


    another important thing in calcium regulation is vitamin D.

    Vitamin D promotes calcium absorption in the gut and maintains adequate serum calcium and phosphate concentrations to enable normal mineralization of bone and to prevent hypocalcemic tetany. It is also needed for bone growth and bone remodeling by osteoblasts and osteoclasts [1,2]. Without sufficient vitamin D, bones can become thin, brittle, or misshapen. Vitamin D sufficiency prevents rickets in children and osteomalacia in adults [1]. Together with calcium, vitamin D also helps protect older adults from osteoporosis.
    Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet: Vitamin D

    so we have to have adequate calcium and vitamin D for bones to function properly and be healthy. so why is it that my mother has low bone density even though she has been taking caltrate which has both calcium and vit D?

    my theory- in race horses there is a condition that very commonly affects young horses in training called bucked shins. it is fracture of the cannon bone, the cannon bone is the long bone between the horses foot and its knee. this occurs because as the horses are being conditioned they are often galloped around the track to get their lungs and muscles in shape. this puts many loading cycles on the bone. the more the horse gallops the more stress on the bone and the bone starts remodeling to hold up to the applied forces. the problem is that as soon as the horse has its first work or first race where they are asked to run, the bone then develops microfractures. it is very painful and often interrupts training. this happens because bone remodels to the forces put on it. these horses bones have remodeled for the load of a gallop but not the load of a run which is significantly more forceful. so how does this relate to my mom? haha well, because of the fibromyalgia, my mom has been pretty seditary for over 30 years. she sits at the computer most of the day and any work she does is not heavy or forceful in any way. she might have brief moments of lifting something but overall, she doesnt do much of anything like that. her bones have no expectation of any kind of force. because of this, the body is not taking any calcium to remodel her bones and make them stronger, why should it, there is no stimulus for it to do so. so even though she is taking the calcium her body isnt using it to make her bones stronger, it is using if for muscle contraction and then probably dumping the rest of it. i imagine it is also still drawing calcium from her bones to utilize as well, thereby causing further osteopenia. the vertebra in her back are deteriorating as well as her discs. but never has she done any lifting to signal her back and the bones that make it up to remodel and get stronger.

    now this is just my common sense way of tying it all together. im not saying it is right but it makes sense to me. so why am i even writing this? well, to me it just confirms that every woman out there should be doing some sort of physical exercise and lifting weights should be part of it. not that they have to be out there building muscle and trying to get huge but rather they should be doing it to apply stress to their bones so that their bones stay active and continue to keep up on its calcium absorption.
    Thats hard when it is your mom. I am 57 years old as I stated before that I was diagnosed with osteoporosis at an early age of 48. Not sure why I ended up with it as I was an avid milk drinker growing up lol. My sister has ostepenia which comes before the osteoporosis. I also have arthritis and have good and bad days but move around as much as possible, sometimes I tend to overdue it and pay for it but there is alot of outside work here to help out with and I hate sitting idle. I was told to take the calcium and magesium and D but now I don't know what to do or take...I am still taking D. Just the recent info coming out about women and heart attacks caused by calcium scared the hell out of me...so until I hear different, not sure what to take for bones other than vit. D and exercise and yes weight bearing is very good for your bones. Good luck with your mom and great post you made, interesting.

  15. #14
    TID Lady Member AllTheWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    4,269
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 370 Times in 298 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    im sure like most anything, too much is a bad thing but taking a calcium supp daily isnt going to give you a heart attack. hell, im sure they could link heart attacks to eating ice cream if they wanted because im sure every woman who has had a heart attack has eaten ice cream at some time in her life. unless there is statistically significance to the reports than they are just that, a report that doesnt prove anything! go back to your calcium supp!

  16. #15
    Weasel Hunting Moderator SHINE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    [[[-------]]]
    Posts
    5,044
    Thanks
    553
    Thanked 529 Times in 426 Posts

    Re: Woman, calcium and bones

    Quote Originally Posted by serenity4 View Post
    Thats hard when it is your mom. I am 57 years old as I stated before that I was diagnosed with osteoporosis at an early age of 48. Not sure why I ended up with it as I was an avid milk drinker growing up lol. My sister has ostepenia which comes before the osteoporosis. I also have arthritis and have good and bad days but move around as much as possible, sometimes I tend to overdue it and pay for it but there is alot of outside work here to help out with and I hate sitting idle. I was told to take the calcium and magesium and D but now I don't know what to do or take...I am still taking D. Just the recent info coming out about women and heart attacks caused by calcium scared the hell out of me...so until I hear different, not sure what to take for bones other than vit. D and exercise and yes weight bearing is very good for your bones. Good luck with your mom and great post you made, interesting.
    Linked to the over use of calcium supplements,

    http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/s...se-20100812204
    Last edited by SHINE; 07-07-2011 at 09:53 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Visitors found this page by searching for:

Nobody landed on this page from a search engine, yet!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •