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dr. jim vs kjetil1234

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kjetil1234

kjetil1234

Senior Member
Jul 6, 2014
114
9
Fix the cause of your pain rather than conceal the symptoms?

Ice will slow(not stop) the inflammation. The natural inflammation occurs to promote healing of the area. So, the ice will delay the healing and conceal the symptoms of injury, not fix anything.

http://sock-doc.com/2013/02/recover-prevent-injuries/

Additional info of symptom relief: This is why drugs like NSAIDS are horrible in these cases, as it will break the healing process of the tissue and cause scar tissue. It greatly stunts tissue regeneration (inhibits fibroblasts (cells that regenerate tissue) and macrophages (cells that clean the waste from area))

http://www.caringmedical.com/sports-injuries/nsaids-why-we-do-not-recommend-them/
 
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5.0

5.0

VIP Member
Nov 3, 2012
5,245
1,696
Fix the cause of your pain rather than conceal the symptoms?

Ice will slow(not stop) the inflammation. The natural inflammation occurs to promote healing of the area. So, the ice will delay the healing and conceal the symptoms of injury, not fix anything.

http://sock-doc.com/2013/02/recover-prevent-injuries/

Additional info of symptom relief: This is why drugs like NSAIDS are horrible in these cases, as it will break the healing process of the tissue and cause scar tissue. It greatly stunts tissue regeneration (inhibits fibroblasts (cells that regenerate tissue) and macrophages (cells that clean the waste from area))

http://www.caringmedical.com/sports-injuries/nsaids-why-we-do-not-recommend-them/

So your not recommending ice or nsaid's for arthritic relief? I'll just wait the 30 yrs till they will replace my knee
 
kjetil1234

kjetil1234

Senior Member
Jul 6, 2014
114
9
HyperIce by Rogue?

So your not recommending ice or nsaid's for arthritic relief? I'll just wait the 30 yrs till they will replace my knee

As I said, assess the cause of the pain first. If there's nothing to be done (which is more often a sign of incompetence of the physician than a fact), of course you need to manage the symptoms.

The question is, WHY do you have arthritis? Most likely your knee is not properly aligned, which causes major wear and tear on whichever side the excessive friction is present. A corrective strategy to align the knee properly and some supplements that support joint health (MSM, glucosamine, collagen, hyaluronic acid, etc) and it should get back to normal. Depending on the degree of injury of course...

Either way, if NSAIDS relieve your pain, that means your inflammation is likely the main culprit. The inflammation is due to increased friction usually, and thus it's fixable.
 
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dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
------------------

As I said, assess the cause of the pain first. If there's nothing to be done (which is more often a sign of incompetence of the physician than a fact), of course you need to manage the symptoms.

No the fact is in some instances "nothing can be done" but hope the body heals itself, which usually is the case.

The question is, WHY do you have arthritis? It's called wear and tear fella, for the same reason you have to change tires on that vehicle FRICTION!

Most likely your knee is not properly aligned, you have incessantly discussed MS alignment like this can be measured objectively. What tests are u suggesting people pursue (excluding direct observation) to determine if they are "properly aligned"? which causes major wear and tear on whichever side the excessive friction is present. A corrective strategy to align the knee properly and some supplements that support joint health (MSM, glucosamine, collagen, hyaluronic acid, etc) and it should get back to normal. Depending on the degree of injury of course...

These substances don't support "joint health" especially if taken orally where gastic acid degrades the peptide components. At best they may relieve the symptoms. PAIN. of arthritis when given as an intra-articular injection. Evidence???

Either way, if NSAIDS relieve your pain, that means your inflammation is likely the main culprit. The inflammation is due to increased friction usually, and thus it's fixable.
 
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dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
So your not recommending ice or nsaid's for arthritic relief? I'll just wait the 30 yrs till they will replace my knee

=======================
Ah a man of reason? The suggestion people must suffer is absolutely unfounded. The facts are everyone in sports medicine understands the ACUTE inflammatory cascade is often counterproductive. There are no adverse effects of using NSAIDS for brief periods and the same holds true for ICE unequivocally.

K, did you investigate those articles to determine how long these patients were followed for, unlikely.

Because I can promise there will be no difference over a 1-2 month follow up period providing re-injury has not occured.

So restricting NSAID like schedule II drugs is doing patients no favors, simply limit the dose (your study subjects received near the max) and duration of therapy.
Regs
im
 
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dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168

Come on K that's another BLOG your using for medical opinions. Who is the "Soc Doc" anyway? My suspicion a Chiropractor as yourself? Does this "Soc Doc" provide evidence for any of his unconventional suggestions?

You know K I'm only inquiring about peer reviewed journals especially for NOT recommending ICE after an acute injury, the latter being an unequivocal standard of care.

While I honestly believe nontraditional approaches are worth considering they should not become "a standard" unless conventional therapy fails or new evidence surfaces, the latter not being that rare IME.
 
kjetil1234

kjetil1234

Senior Member
Jul 6, 2014
114
9
Blog or not, doesn't change the chemistry. Well, we don't have to agree on everything, doc. That's fine.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
Here you go, your own thread to swing your so called medical dicks at each other.

I'm responding to a relevant question posed by the OP regarding the treatment of muscluoskeletal injuries. Does it really matter if it's the use of some new found device? Would an article on compressive stocking such as "VoDoo Floss" be condemned also? What would the criticism be if someone queried about the use of NSAIDs or ICE post injury, because his very process insures threads become viewed by all rather than the few.

Are members only interested in TID member opinions, which are a dime a dozen, often with no basis in fact or reason.

My comments have absolutely nothing to do with my manhood or DICK but the belief that some people visit TID because they would like to understand what therapies are evidence based and those which are not.

I wonder what the objective is (because it's certainly not a component of TIDs mission statement) such that the intolerance of respectful debating and thinking is so discouraged, apparently for the sake of civility, that the forum becomes medically sterile, stagnant and void of useful interventional information.

My suspicion is that's one thing K and I do agree on.

Jim
 
PillarofBalance

PillarofBalance

Strength Pimp
Feb 27, 2011
17,066
4,640
I saw a vid from a sports doc that treats pro athletes and he suggested not using ice but instead heat and an estim unit. I thought it was a novel idea.

Draw blood in with nutrients and healing stuff and work out the debris thru the lymphatic system with the estim.

I haven't had a serious sprain to treat (knock on wood) so I don't have any feedback to report.
 
Rottenrogue

Rottenrogue

Strongwoman
Jan 26, 2011
6,595
1,882
To be clear . My problem is not educated opinions being thrown out.
My problem steering of the op topic into a debate. You two can debate I'm sure there is some good stuff being learned.
But when someone asks an opinion in a shoulder sleeve that is what they want.
Too many times it goes into a debate and frankly the post gets lost in the sea of debate and articles.
 
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