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Carbohydrates are needed to lose , screw keto

ketsugo

ketsugo

MuscleHead
Sep 10, 2011
2,652
486
We need Carbs to work out like madmen, spare muscle, keep mood high etc

When you’re in the gym lifting heavy, the main purpose of carbohydrates will be to produce ATP. The only way that we can produce ATP is through glucose, which is what
carbohydrates get broken down to. Another muscle sparing benefits of carbohydrates is that it will cause insulin release.
Certain individuals on the internet have gotten people so crazy about any type of insulin release that even the mere
mention of it causes people to add bodyfat. There’s no reason for people to react this way. Again, the task of maintaining muscle (remember, muscle keeps our metabolism
high) is of utmost! Insulin is one of the most anabolic and anti-catabolic hormones in our body. Just look at all the bodybuilders of today vs yesteryear- INSULIN
When insulin is present, it’s impossible to break down muscle. Not to mention that your muscles will appear fuller and rounder when carbohydrates are being stored. Insulin
actually inhibits various catabolic (muscle wasting) hormones including cortisol, which is a stress hormone that is released in times of dieting, lifting, injury, or relationship woe-( Ill bet half the whiners crying that EQ or Test makes them moody are on keto diets LOL) . Cortisol will break down muscle to get protein then convert it to glucose. Cortisol is the main hormone that is released when we lift, we can’t avoid it. Having insulin in the body inhibits cortisol from spiking and prevents its release from the pancreas. So if we followed a ketogenic type diet, our cortisol would be elevated and we’d just be breaking down muscle tissue while we train and try to build it! It’s also important to note that a zero carbohydrate type of diet actually damages the insulin receptors on our muscle cells. Ever know anyone that ate no carbohydrates for a few weeks, looked great, finished dieting then when they added carbohydrates back in they gained all the weight back?
Well of course they gained the weight back, they made their bodies so sensitive to carbohydrates that it was easy for them to gain weight back.
Remember that carbohydrates will keep your muscles looking full and round? In the ketogenic diet "they " Talk about cell hydration, well carbohydrates
help to keep our muscle mass by keeping our cell volume and osmotic pressure (pulling water to the cell) high.
This tricks our body since cell volume and pressure tell the body that we are being fed.
When our cells don’t have this volume and pressure, our body thinks that we’re in a
starved state. Being in a fed state is better, our body wants to keep the fat burning
hormones and muscle building hormones high.
Another benefit that we get for being in a fed state and keeping your cell high is that
protein synthesis is increased. If this volume drops then so will our ability to store
muscle will drop. We store carbohydrates as glycogen, this means that if we store one gram of
carbohydrates we store about 2.5 grams of water. So if we store more glycogen, we’ll
store more water and we’ll have more volume. Now to me this is common sense, but why do so many Our people not see? Impatience, lack of self discipline ? I dont know
A ketogenic diet can’t do this. Any one begs to differ is full of f/n shit !!!
Is energy in and out of the gym a goal? If our energy drops then our strength is going to drop. This will lead to a faster rate of muscle loss, poor workou perfromance/a decreased stimulus of overload training. We have to keep our energy high. Lower
glycogen levels, which happens with dieting, is associated with increased fatigue and a
lack of energy. Numerous studies show that consuming proper amounts of
carbohydrates before and after training can delay this fatigue and increase
performance, even if we’re fatigued the rest of the day.
Dieting is easier if you can maintain a certain quality of lifestyle. There are benefits of low carb and benefts of low fat- THe body naturally has a tendency to adapt to anything we do to it- ( homeostasis) A wide spread method of shreding and proven over time is to CYCLE your days of eating from low carb , high protien , higher fat to moderate carb to higher carb. The keto is like classified as an extremist concept- get it - "extreme" Yeah you may get quick results short term but its not a long term healthy idea. Yeah you get Joe Pro whom you may want to follow - me? IM 48 , I been bodybuilding for 30 years, I have lived it, 24/7 - To me its not just about a contest, its about living life to the fullest healthy, I want to feel high because I live healthy. Yeah I may utilize some chemical assistance so to speak, but I dont rely on pills or potions. I lifted natty for more than 10-13 years, of course I was younger then but no one in my gym was bigger , stronger or more ripped- that included all the idiots that took gear before they figured out how to train. KNow thyself- learn how to do many various approaches to training - even something as simple as how to perform a set, how to cycle you intensity and volume- there is so much out there. I love this forum, I honest to god think its a gift to all here, but overall the forum community is filled with dysfunctional knowledge , just as in my years of martial art and combat training money and power corrupts - most mainstream books literature are trash. Many knoobs point to studies not grasping that there are 1000s of studies that contradict each other and or that are completely irrelevant. STudies are corrupt too. YOU ARE YOUR BEST TEACHER. Never forget that
 
C

Cigano

New Member
Apr 7, 2014
1
0
I have been on the keto diet for approx 2 weeks now. Haven't really felt my workout decline untill today, my lifts were not as strong and the intensity was not there, not sure if it's the lack of carbs or sleep perhaps both. I have read that some guys are modifying the diet and carbing up on the weekends basicly eating what ever they wish. What do you think ? Good idea ?
 
woodswise

woodswise

TID Board Of Directors
Apr 29, 2012
4,334
1,340
I call BS. I have dieted on ketogenic diets for 6 months at a time at least three different occasions over the past 3 years and have lost a lot of weight while on. I have plenty of energy for my workouts, and generally feel as good or better than I do while on carbs.

The part in the article about ATP is completely wrong.

ATP is produced in the mitochondria of our cells, by the citric acid cycle. When carbohydrates are in abundant supply, they are used in the citric acid cycle to generate ATP. When a person is in ketosis, the liver generates acetyl co-a through beta oxidation, and acetyl co-a is used in the citric acid cycle instead of carbohydrates, to produce ATP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

Also, insulin is produced in healthy (non-diabetic) individuals while they are in ketosis. So the article had that wrong, too.
 
Last edited:
Dex

Dex

VIP Member
Mar 30, 2011
1,511
210
To say one thing is 100% BS is wrong when it comes to the human body. No one reacts the same way to one "diet" or even a specific food.
 
TheClap

TheClap

VIP Member
Oct 25, 2011
547
173
I call BS. I have dieted on ketogenic diets for 6 months at a time at least three different occasions over the past 3 years and have lost a lot of weight while on. I have plenty of energy for my workouts, and generally feel as good or better than I do while on carbs.

The part in the article about ATP is completely wrong.

ATP is produced in the mitochondria of our cells, by the citric acid cycle. When carbohydrates are in abundant supply, they are used in the citric acid cycle to generate ATP. When a person is in ketosis, the liver generates acetyl co-a through beta oxidation, and acetyl co-a is used in the citric acid cycle instead of carbohydrates, to produce ATP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

Also, insulin is produced in healthy (non-diabetic) individuals while they are in ketosis. So the article had that wrong, too.

Well, the citric acid cycle or "Kerbs cycle" produces like 2 net ATP. Really it's all produced during the phase after that as hydrogen ions get sucked down through ATP-Synthase in the cristae of the mitochondria. But as you said the body breaks down fat and dumps the proper metabolites right into the Krebs Cycle which then creates hydrogen ions and the rest of the cycle takes place just like it does when you have carbs. Eliminating carbs only eliminates glucolysis which also only produces like 2 net ATP. Each cycle of cellular respiration makes something like 34 net ATP with about 30 of those being produced by the hydrogen ion gradient.

That's why DNP burns so many calories is because it allows hydrogen ions to fall through that gradient without being sucked down through ATP-Synthase so you resort to making ATP through glucolysis, Krebs cycle etc. Obviously this effect is only partial though. A person would die long before they lost 100% of their ability to make ATP through the ion gradient.

That being said, I don't do keto anymore ever. I do intermittent fasting which will put me into ketosis for a short period of time each day (or so the keto sticks say), but then I get my carbs and don't end up looking flat as hell like I do when I used to do keto.
 
shortz

shortz

Beard of Knowledge VIP
May 6, 2013
3,107
897
That being said, I don't do keto anymore ever. I do intermittent fasting which will put me into ketosis for a short period of time each day (or so the keto sticks say), but then I get my carbs and don't end up looking flat as hell like I do when I used to do keto.

I do the same. I am getting 300+ grams of carbs a day and getting shredded. It's not "because that's how my body reacts" bullshit either. Its because I know how to diet properly and lose based on the principles of calories first, macros second.
 
IronInsanity

IronInsanity

TID Board Of Directors
May 3, 2011
3,386
1,089
CKD has always worked for me... Only downside is that it's known for giving one bad breath...
 
DrMehta

DrMehta

Member
Apr 5, 2014
40
5
KETO is an end game diet, best to run it the last 4-6 weeks of a diet.

I Would have to be 100lbs over fat to need to run it for six months, and even then I would run a better diet the first five months.
 
Last edited:
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
KETO is an end game diet, best to run it the last 4-6 weeks of a diet.

I Would have to be 100lbs over fat to need to run it for six months, and even then I would run a better diet the first five months.


Your a wise mate Sir.
jim
 
silntrunin

silntrunin

MuscleHead
Aug 30, 2011
759
162
We need Carbs to work out like madmen, spare muscle, keep mood high etc

When you’re in the gym lifting heavy, the main purpose of carbohydrates will be to produce ATP. The only way that we can produce ATP is through glucose, which is what
carbohydrates get broken down to. Another muscle sparing benefits of carbohydrates is that it will cause insulin release.
Certain individuals on the internet have gotten people so crazy about any type of insulin release that even the mere
mention of it causes people to add bodyfat. There’s no reason for people to react this way. Again, the task of maintaining muscle (remember, muscle keeps our metabolism
high) is of utmost! Insulin is one of the most anabolic and anti-catabolic hormones in our body. Just look at all the bodybuilders of today vs yesteryear- INSULIN
When insulin is present, it’s impossible to break down muscle. Not to mention that your muscles will appear fuller and rounder when carbohydrates are being stored. Insulin
actually inhibits various catabolic (muscle wasting) hormones including cortisol, which is a stress hormone that is released in times of dieting, lifting, injury, or relationship woe-( Ill bet half the whiners crying that EQ or Test makes them moody are on keto diets LOL) . Cortisol will break down muscle to get protein then convert it to glucose. Cortisol is the main hormone that is released when we lift, we can’t avoid it. Having insulin in the body inhibits cortisol from spiking and prevents its release from the pancreas. So if we followed a ketogenic type diet, our cortisol would be elevated and we’d just be breaking down muscle tissue while we train and try to build it! It’s also important to note that a zero carbohydrate type of diet actually damages the insulin receptors on our muscle cells. Ever know anyone that ate no carbohydrates for a few weeks, looked great, finished dieting then when they added carbohydrates back in they gained all the weight back?
Well of course they gained the weight back, they made their bodies so sensitive to carbohydrates that it was easy for them to gain weight back.
Remember that carbohydrates will keep your muscles looking full and round? In the ketogenic diet "they " Talk about cell hydration, well carbohydrates
help to keep our muscle mass by keeping our cell volume and osmotic pressure (pulling water to the cell) high.
This tricks our body since cell volume and pressure tell the body that we are being fed.
When our cells don’t have this volume and pressure, our body thinks that we’re in a
starved state. Being in a fed state is better, our body wants to keep the fat burning
hormones and muscle building hormones high.
Another benefit that we get for being in a fed state and keeping your cell high is that
protein synthesis is increased. If this volume drops then so will our ability to store
muscle will drop. We store carbohydrates as glycogen, this means that if we store one gram of
carbohydrates we store about 2.5 grams of water. So if we store more glycogen, we’ll
store more water and we’ll have more volume. Now to me this is common sense, but why do so many Our people not see? Impatience, lack of self discipline ? I dont know
A ketogenic diet can’t do this. Any one begs to differ is full of f/n shit !!!
Is energy in and out of the gym a goal? If our energy drops then our strength is going to drop. This will lead to a faster rate of muscle loss, poor workou perfromance/a decreased stimulus of overload training. We have to keep our energy high. Lower
glycogen levels, which happens with dieting, is associated with increased fatigue and a
lack of energy. Numerous studies show that consuming proper amounts of
carbohydrates before and after training can delay this fatigue and increase
performance, even if we’re fatigued the rest of the day.
Dieting is easier if you can maintain a certain quality of lifestyle. There are benefits of low carb and benefts of low fat- THe body naturally has a tendency to adapt to anything we do to it- ( homeostasis) A wide spread method of shreding and proven over time is to CYCLE your days of eating from low carb , high protien , higher fat to moderate carb to higher carb. The keto is like classified as an extremist concept- get it - "extreme" Yeah you may get quick results short term but its not a long term healthy idea. Yeah you get Joe Pro whom you may want to follow - me? IM 48 , I been bodybuilding for 30 years, I have lived it, 24/7 - To me its not just about a contest, its about living life to the fullest healthy, I want to feel high because I live healthy. Yeah I may utilize some chemical assistance so to speak, but I dont rely on pills or potions. I lifted natty for more than 10-13 years, of course I was younger then but no one in my gym was bigger , stronger or more ripped- that included all the idiots that took gear before they figured out how to train. KNow thyself- learn how to do many various approaches to training - even something as simple as how to perform a set, how to cycle you intensity and volume- there is so much out there. I love this forum, I honest to god think its a gift to all here, but overall the forum community is filled with dysfunctional knowledge , just as in my years of martial art and combat training money and power corrupts - most mainstream books literature are trash. Many knoobs point to studies not grasping that there are 1000s of studies that contradict each other and or that are completely irrelevant. STudies are corrupt too. YOU ARE YOUR BEST TEACHER. Never forget that

Nice post bro. I was just researching low carb diet and carb depleting this morning and everything you wrote is pretty much dead on.
 
ketsugo

ketsugo

MuscleHead
Sep 10, 2011
2,652
486
Nice post bro. I was just researching low carb diet and carb depleting this morning and everything you wrote is pretty much dead on.

I'm no genius but I have lived this life for 30 plus years. My whole life is training. Low carb has it's place but better rotate low carb and low fat to throw your body off and trick it into fat loss by confusing it
 
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