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oral AAS and liver protection.

Bionixx

Bionixx

MuscleHead
Dec 6, 2011
326
9
What would you use on and off oral cycles? I NAC & siliphos and thinking TUDCA. What is the best time to take? with 17-aa's or before bed. Saying you take them mornings how some may take drol evenings.
 
barbellbeast

barbellbeast

MuscleHead
Oct 4, 2010
403
93
I stay on Liv.52 year round, drink a gallon of water a day, have a couple cups of black coffee most days...good enough for me. NAC makes your protein shake taste like shit.
 
graniteman

graniteman

MuscleHead
Dec 31, 2011
6,133
1,556
There is no ''real'' scientific liver ''protection'', I've seen some of the top guys in internal medicine and every one of them said the same ''As long as it doesn't interefere with treatments, it can't hurt''. What they were saying was there's no real medical basis to these supps . The supplements we take may help liver function but the orals are going to effect your liver values no matter what. The best you can do is limit the time on and just as importantly off to allow your liver to re-generate and get back to normal ranges.
before everyone goes bonkers, I do supplement also, milk thistle, Alpha-lipoic acid, NAC, and very little to no alcohol anymore.
 
FLBB89

FLBB89

MuscleHead
May 27, 2013
946
241
To graniteman's point...I actually never take any liver support supps. the liver toxicity of most oral steroids (most, not halotestin and cheque drops) is way overstated. People are/were prescribed these drugs for long durations in moderate to large doses.

Anadrol, for example, is indicated for prescribed doses 1-2mg/kg with doses up to 5mg/kg and minimum period of 3-6 months.
 
T

trinitysurf

Member
Mar 10, 2014
23
0
I've got the data from those oral studies somewhere here. Can't remember if it was var or drol but they specifically speak to what percentage of elevated liver enzymes each dosage created over the term of the study. Also, there's a study that I believe was done on drol where the older male subjects were on for a year straight.
 
graniteman

graniteman

MuscleHead
Dec 31, 2011
6,133
1,556
I've got the data from those oral studies somewhere here. Can't remember if it was var or drol but they specifically speak to what percentage of elevated liver enzymes each dosage created over the term of the study. Also, there's a study that I believe was done on drol where the older male subjects were on for a year straight.

Adrol, Var, test, HgH are all medically prescribed to muscle wasting patients, hiv patients, cancer etc. The media had hyped aas and thats where the hysteria comes from
 
Bionixx

Bionixx

MuscleHead
Dec 6, 2011
326
9
To graniteman's point...I actually never take any liver support supps. the liver toxicity of most oral steroids (most, not halotestin and cheque drops) is way overstated. People are/were prescribed these drugs for long durations in moderate to large doses.

Anadrol, for example, is indicated for prescribed doses 1-2mg/kg with doses up to 5mg/kg and minimum period of 3-6 months.

I read this also on drugs.com . Won't waste any more money of liver support since I take GHRP-2 and it protects the liver probably better than any OTC supple.
 
Littleguy

Littleguy

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
4,497
3,518
I take nothing and never have but I run conservative dosing over loooong periods.
No issues thus far.
 
C

CT21

Member
Nov 16, 2012
14
2
To graniteman's point...I actually never take any liver support supps. the liver toxicity of most oral steroids (most, not halotestin and cheque drops) is way overstated. People are/were prescribed these drugs for long durations in moderate to large doses.

Anadrol, for example, is indicated for prescribed doses 1-2mg/kg with doses up to 5mg/kg and minimum period of 3-6 months.
^this^ and everything trinity, granite, bionixx, and littleguy said after this. mike Arnold on another forum puts it this way, if oral aas caused as much damage as every1 is afraid of just after one cycle NOBODY would be using them! The human liver is MADE to detoxify the body and then REGENERATE itself. Doing a oral aas cycle (without abusing them) causes liver enzymes to elevate as much as if you were a 21 yr old college student "drinking" on the weekends. And elevated liver enzymes don't "necessarily" indicate there is something wrong with your liver, as liver enzymes can elevate after an intense workout. is there something wrong there, NO! Elevated liver enzymes are just ONE of the markers docs look for when diagnosing something. Also any antioxidant you might be taking for numerous health benefits could be beneficial to liver health to i.e vitamin C, R-alpha lipoic acid, NAC, asthaxthan, fish oil(omega 3), etc...As I take some of these not necessarily for liver health but other benefits.
IMO the liver is not something you should be worried about granted you have no pre existing conditions or drink on average, even with high dosages of oral aas for long periods but your kidneys are. As most aas (esp oral) raise RBC and blood pressure. and is usually the area a lot of guys fail into the danger zone due to their oral aas use.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
There is no ''real'' scientific liver ''protection'', I've seen some of the top guys in internal medicine and every one of them said the same ''As long as it doesn't interefere with treatments, it can't hurt''. What they were saying was there's no real medical basis to these supps . The supplements we take may help liver function but the orals are going to effect your liver values no matter what. The best you can do is limit the time on and just as importantly off to allow your liver to re-generate and get back to normal ranges.
before everyone goes bonkers, I do supplement also, milk thistle, Alpha-lipoic acid, NAC, and very little to no alcohol anymore.

GM excellent points in your post because there is no evidence hepatic supplements work and they are NOT cheap by any means. Can they hurt? Yea your pocket book and like MANY supps there is no evidence supporting not only their efficacy but their safety is another concern since FEW have undergone clinical trials.

There is ONE therapeutic approach to every hepatic toxic (excluding specific antidotes) removal of the offending agent or limit the dose and duration of exposure.

Do I recommend their use NOT AT ALL but to each their own.

jim
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,442
648
The thing that always comes to mind for me is are these supps in any way hindering the ability of the oral AAS to be absorbed or do they act directly on liver tissue only? The reason 17-aa drugs are so harsh is because they have to pass through the liver twice. And it's not like walking through someone's living room... it's more like walking down a dark alley knowing you're going to get in several fights along the way. I guess my question would be IF these supplements succeed in their efforts, do they strengthen the liver's ability to withstand an attack from these orals (thus lessening the bioavailability of the drug) or do they simply repair what has been damaged?
 
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